Parenting, Careers, and Disneyland: Brett and Stephen’s Story

Parenting, Careers, and Disneyland: Brett and Stephen’s Story

Welcome to Episode Twelve of Touched Out: A Mental Health Podcast for Parents!

This week, we’re joined by Brett and Stephen, two inspiring fathers who share their heartfelt journey to parenthood. Their story is filled with love, resilience, and determination as they navigate the challenges of becoming parents in a world that still harbors prejudice.

Trigger Warning: This episode includes discussions on miscarriage, homophobia, and mental health challenges. Listener discretion is advised.

In this episode, Brett and Stephen open up about:

From Miscarriage to Surrogacy: How they overcame a heartbreaking miscarriage and embarked on a four-year surrogacy journey to welcome their son into the world.
Mental Health and Parenthood: The struggles they faced in the first year of parenting, highlighting the importance of self-care and seeking support.
Confronting Homophobia: Their experiences with ignorance and discrimination as gay parents and their unwavering commitment to raising their son in a loving and inclusive environment.
The Role of Social Media: How they use TikTok and Instagram to advocate for LGBTQIA+ representation and share their parenting journey with a growing audience.
Balancing Life and Careers: Tips on managing demanding careers while being present, loving parents, and their cherished connection to Disneyland.

Join us as Brett and Stephen discuss the triumphs and trials of their unique path to fatherhood, offering invaluable insights and encouragement for parents and allies alike. Their story serves as a beacon of hope and love, proving that family is built on acceptance and diversity.

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Theme music written and performed by Ben Drysdale ©2025: www.bendrysdalemusic.com

Trigger warning. The following podcast contains explicit language and discussions of sensitive topics that some listeners may find distressing, including miscarriage, child abuse, mental health issues and birth trauma.

Listener discretion is advised if you feel triggered or overwhelmed at any point, we encourage you to pause the episode and take care of.

Yourself. Goodnight, guys. Welcome to another.

Episode of the Touched Out podcast.

In today's episode, I chat with Brett and Stephen a loving couple.

Stephen, a ballet dancer, and Brett, a Broadway actor, discussed their emotional journey of miscarriage, the pursuit of finding a surrogate and the joyous birth of their son.

Maverick threatens to even share their experiences of growing up as gay individuals in conservative States and families, shedding light on the challenges and triumphs they faced along the way. They discussed the empowerment they feel as fathers.

Raising their child with unconditional love and the importance of inclusivity and acceptance in today's society, we also discuss why it's OK to not be OK adapting day-to-day to meet family needs. The significance of inclusivity in mainstream media, and the magic of Disney.

I hope you enjoyed today's episode, and if you did, please consider subscribing and leaving a rating as well as following us on socials at Touched Out Podcast for sneak peeks at upcoming episodes and more thanks all.

No lies spins up, so take your friend from.

So today we have Brett and Steven from New York. How are you going guys?

Good. We're going. We're good.

Very good to hear. Thank you so much for joining me today.

It was a bit of a task trying to link up the time zones and get everyone organised to be able to do it, so I do really really appreciate your work in in getting this organised.

So why don't you tell me a little bit about yourselves and a little bit about your family and your history, how you guys met, how you guys came to be fathers, and then we'll go from there.

Well, I mean briefly, all of that, let's just say I.

Met go ahead in 2006.

Yeah, we met actually at an AA meeting.

Because we're both sober.

Both I was maybe two years sober, he.

Was and I was very new. He's very nearly sober.

And he I, you know, we were both like 26. So you know, in our prime if you will and.

In my prime now.

So and yeah. And you know, we were trying very hard.

Know, too flirtatious. We were both seeing other people at the time.

And so and also it's just.

Not recommended when you're newly.

So we were trying to be friends and we were.

We were friends.

But we would typically get together and just complain about the people we were seeing.

That's why after about, I don't know, six months long.

Maybe no, maybe.

Longer, I mean because it was.

Maybe longer. We both we both ended up breaking up.

Something like that, yeah.

On our own terms with the other people and when we were single, we were like, hey, what you doing, how you going?

And how you going gonna go over here?

Yeah. Yeah. And so that was April 18th, 2000.

Seven, we started kind of officially being more than friends then because the reason.

We know that date is because April 18th, 2011 is the day.

We got married, so four years to.

The day that we started dating, we got married.

And so we were together, we.

When when we first started dating, I was a ballet dancer. Primarily it was a principal dancer with New York City Ballet, and Brett was on Broadway and Beauty and the Beast at the time.

And then he went on to go to join the cast of The Little Mermaid. And that's when we started dating, like, officially.

And he didn't really want to date anyone in the arts, apparently. But since I was in the ballet, which was like, pretty different than Broadway, and my job was very steady, he thought it was OK.

And and then in 2000.

Eight I got cast as older Billy and Billy Elliot on Broadway, so then I started doing some Broadway myself.

He broke some rules and at that point it was really. Yeah.

Experts and rules.

We have a saying here in Australia that you should never dip your pen in Company, Inc, so you've definitely broken.

Yeah. Yeah. So we we were together for.

That rule mate.

I I don't know. At some point we started.

Talking about wanting to have kids.

But we never really knew.

If it would, well, we talked.

About getting married, 2000.

Yeah, I mean, I know we talked about it, but like those were all conversations we were having as getting married and having kids.

Like serious about having kids until like 2015.

We went to like a family building.

Seminar kind of.

Just kind of learn our options and just see and then 2018, we started the process of going through surrogacy.

Which is, you know, there's multiple layers to the service process and you know, IVF finding a surrogate who would carry the baby.

And so it All in all, it took us about four years, and then our son Maverick was born in in March of 2022. So now we have a 13.

Half month old.

Awesome. He's turning. He's turning the top. It's crazy. It's.

Little crazy it's.

It happens fast. Fastest thing, yeah.

It's it goes so quick.

So with with the surrogacy process, can you tell me a little bit about your experience and and all of the kind of intricacies and decisions that came with opting?

For that route.

Yeah, I mean you.

Know we always tell the story of like for the longest time we wanted to adopt.

We were like really kind of set on adopting and then we saw this before I saw this movie. Did we see it together?

We did see it together.

Like and we just we.

Looked up the title today. Well it.

Other people, people I can never remember the title of it and it's a drama with Molly Shannon and she's dying of cancer in the film.

And it's very sad. And she has a gay son. And on her death bed, she says to the gay.

Just promise me you'll come and see my come and see your sister when I'm gone. And he was like, yeah, of course I will.

Like, why would my she's like, well, when you do, you'll always see my face in hers. When you come to see her.

And there was just something about that sentiment that for whatever reason, it was like a voice inside my head saying.

We should try and have a biological baby.

Through, you know, one of us and.

And so that was.

Kind of the decision, you know.

We did that and then and then when we met with the fertility Dr and found an egg donor. We the egg donor process I think, can be pretty strenuous for some people.

But for us it was fairly easy. I mean, we literally picked the picked the first profile we looked at.

We looked at others, but we went back to the.

The perfect she was it, and it's just like we just knew and.

I think it's very easy to overthink.

Some things in this process too and.

Really. No. She's great. She's a perfect fit. So we went.

With her and we.

We we just talked about this today.

Like she had 38 eggs, she had till 20 of them were viable. They spooked them in half. Yeah. So half were Stevens, half were mines. And then.

They were dwindled down to 11 embryos. Only five became 5:00. So we have 5 embryos. And then the next step.

Whose were whose? And we asked them.

Not to tell us.

You know, you could ask.

And you could and they could tell you.

Yeah, they totally know already. They know everything.

Like we don't want to know.

We'd like there to.

Be a little bit of mystery in.

Those processes, yeah, if.

Yeah. So then the next step is to find a surrogate and we are trying our best not to use an agency which.

End it worked out really well, but it was definitely.

I I definitely understand. Yeah, I definitely understand the investment of an agency is great because it can happen a little bit faster because you got somebody else kind of shepherding the process along, but.

It's 20, you know. It's like from generally about $20,000 just.

An agency and we just didn't want to.

We just, you know, we're freelance artists. Like we didn't have disposable income. So. So that was us trying.

To figure it out.

On the loan. And so we joined Facebook groups for intended parents and we found a surrogate.

Who we actually went with, she we took her to the doctor. Obviously, she passed all the tests. She passed the medical clearance, the mental clearance, the criminal background check, and all of those things. We went to the doctor's with her and her husband.

So you know, we were moving, right, right.

Along with the.

Surrogate that we found and we had planned to do a transfer with her.

But at a certain point, we kind of had to take a pause for some financial reasons and also we were.

Just in the middle of.

The move and we just had to get our lives straightened out a little bit.

So we need to take a little bit of a pot and the agreement was that we would do the transfer.

Before the end of.

The year and when we got to November and we had all of the lawyers contracts written up, they were sent to her and she sent them.

Back and she decided she didn't want to do it.

So that was like a really devastating moment that was around Thanksgiving of 2019. So now it's been like a year and a half into the process. And then what happened?

One of her really good friends, Kate, was throwing her 40th birthday was a surprise.

Birthday party for her.

In the city and a mutual friend of ours had come up to surprise.

Kate from Orlando. And she's a mom. We get to know her. She lives. Her husband took our friends wedding photos at Disney World. So.

We knew her and we were at the party dancing and she's like I.

Heard about this surrogate that.

I would so carry.

You the baby, for you and you were like ha ha ha. You're drunk and.

Tomorrow, if you're serious and she said I'm.

The next day, she was like, I'm serious. I would not offer this anyway I.

Just think you'd be great parents and.

She qualified and the doctor said she was a good fit and we moved forward and.

That's we carried our baby, our friend Crystal.

Awesome. I was going to definitely ask about that because I have seen some TikTok videos that you've posted with with Crystal, and it certainly seemed like there was a a lasting friendship there. So obviously going with a surrogate who is a friend.

Is she a part of Maverick's life? You know, is is she considered an auntie or will you be, you know, forthcoming in information when Maverick is of age and say you?

Know Crystal gave birth to you. Where your dad? She's technically your mum, but.

What does that landscape look like?

Yes. Yeah, I mean we we try and call.

Her his belly buddy.

Yeah, yes. And it she is kind of.

Like an Ant, I would say she's.

Like she, it feels like that she's invested in his life and wants to know what's happening, and he's very familiar with her when he sees her.

And you can tell he's he recognises her voice especially and. And so it's very sweet. It's very nice. And we're going to go see her in July and.

They came up for.

Not on his first birthday, but around his first birthday. Her, her and her husband. They're definitely part of our lives and I think.

That they will be.

And when I I we're going to.

Be fully transparent and when we talk about.

Still, even now, even even though he's only 13 months like we'll talk about.

How he came to be and like, you know, we want him to know.

Exactly what happened.

Exactly how how many people?

Were invested in his existence. It's beautiful.

Yeah, absolutely. It's an amazing and beautiful thing. And I think that that type of transparency and honesty would be really, really integral to maverick developing, you know, his own sense of self identity. You know, as he gets older, which is incredibly important.

Yeah, I mean one.

Of the things I I I want to try to do and you know, maybe in the near.

Sure is. I do want to look up because we didn't, the egg donor was anonymous, so.

We don't have contact for her, but I'm going.

To call, I want to call.

The bank and just.

See if she would be willing to let us know her and just meet so that if Maverick in the future does want to be able to have access to the woman who.

Donated the eggs.

Because you know.

I don't think there should be a mystery there, and I don't think there should. There should.

If there's an option for them to connect.

And he wants that I think that would be really, really wonderful.

Everything he should.

Yeah, certainly. So, I mean it's it's seems like an absolutely massive process to get from from the decision that you wanted to be parents to now.

Having a beautiful little boy, how was the mental health and the ups and downs especially, you know, both being in recovery and all of the trials and tribulations that would have attributed to everything?

Yeah, that's a really, really good question.

It you know it.

It was like the most emotional roller coaster ride.

I want to say exciting and happy, but it wasn't the whole time. It was like just so much out of your control.

Goal so much out of your control and moments of such huge excitement and happiness and anticipation. And then the next moment really like big moments of despair and sadness and our rest. And you know our first embryo.

Transfer. We had a miscarriage. And so that was like it was so hard and.

At least three months to just get.

For that, yeah, it was. It was just so depressing. I I would just, like, spontaneously cry. And, you know, I just think that people underestimate how difficult miscarriages are. It's intense.

You know honestly though, all.

That was amazing because we had.

And each other and also we have such a good relationship. We have such a good.

With her that we were.

In constant communication with her.

And looking back on it had had we had the other surrogate gone through, our experience would have been completely different because we didn't have that built in connection where we were comfortable with one another, the.

No, and I think that maybe.

There's some people who who?

Go through the process who don't want that? Like maybe they just want it to be more transactional.

You know, it's like, yeah, we paid you deliver our baby goodbye. I don't think that's our nature. So it was. It really worked out perfect for us. And but I I think the hardest part really has been.

The first year of becoming a parent because.

I have my mental health has struggled this first year because I think your identity like just my identity, is shifting and you're reliving our childhood, your childhood.

When you become a parent, and so there's been a lot of, especially as a young gay man who grew up in a conservative part of the country and we were living in that same part of the country.

Raising him, we were in Houston at the time. You know, I was just having a lot of, like, childhood trauma, like remissions.

And that has been probably the biggest struggle for me in the last year. And I'm, I'm so glad like it's I've got a better grip on it than I did, but.

I would say surprisingly, the surrogacy process was not as mentally challenging as the first year of.

Being a parent.

Yes, that's true.

Because because once.

Things were kind of moving in the right direction. It was just crazy excitement, lots of anticipation and then leading up to the most magical day, which is the, you know, the day of his first.

And then you you're a parent and you, you know, as as much as we were prepared. And as you know, many videos as we watched and books that we read, you know, there's really no preparing you for what is in store and yeah.

And it's it's exhausting and I.

Think one of the biggest.

Challenges that we should talk about.

Is like for straight couples.

You know their their roles as parents.

Is, for better or worse. Very well you.

Delineated, delineated was for us. It is not. And so in the beginning it was.

Quite challenging because kind.

Of that actually.

Kind of funny at.

Times it is when.

Looking back on it, it's hilarious, but at the time we were literally like tripping over.

Brother, who is going to feed him? Who's going to change his diaper? Who is going to pick him up first?

It was like this. Most like battle kind of cause.

Both wanted it so bad, right? So once we finally calmed down a little bit and we decided that, you know, especially as a newborn, we would do like these shifts I would take.

From 10:00 PM to 4:00 AM and then he would do 4:00 AM to like 8.

AM or whatever.

That was really helpful.

But up until that point, I mean, we were.

Like tripping over.

Each other in the dark and fighting and like.

You know, remember those?

I remember those fights too. We all have those sleep, sleep deprived, zombie kind of outbursts where you don't know where you are or what day it is or anything like that.

It's really good, Carter. I feel like I have a a memory of me, eyes closed, head on the pillow telling Steven, like, how he could go F himself and.

I mean, we were like.

You think that and I'm just like, totally asleep and I?

You're just hilarious.

Ohh yeah, delirium is the perfect word for it. One of one of my wife and I's fondest memories of the first kind of couple of months of of being first time parents was she had woken me up. Probably about.

I think it was maybe six or seven weeks in woken me up at about 2:00 AM to do a night feed for my little girl.

And she's, you know, softly woken me up very lovingly, said babe, do you mind if you can, do you mind if you feed the baby?

I'm really tired.

And I like huffed and puffed. And I.

Ripped the dooner off and got out of bed.

And I walked over and I turned the lamp on on her bedside table and then walked back around and got back.

Into bed and went back to sleep.

And she's woken me up again. She's like.

Please feed the baby and I'm like, I've already turned the ******* lamp on.

What more do you want from me and?

Like to this day we laugh about it.

Now, but in that moment.

She was like, I wanna ******* kill you.

At one point I was trying to change a diaper and Steve, who was trying to change the exact same diaper and I.

Was like can I do this please?

You know, you just.

You just are. Yeah. We weren't prepared for that for.

Sure, but once we, you know like like.

This is my slot. This is your slot.

That looked that.

Great, that worked out great and.

You know, and of course they got better as we went and.

Now we're more communicative now, like, you know who's going to go in and get him now when he wakes up in the morning and who's.

Like, take care of him.

Through, you know, certain times, but we're definitely more communicative about it and it's not as sketchy.

Yeah, the division of labour is a really, really important tool to utilise in those in those first months of parenthood and it's something that still to this day, you know, I've got three kids now, one's just turned 4.

So I'm four years into a parenting journey, but that division of labour is still something that I work.

On every day. And if you know you need to chop out.

Or if you need.

You know A tag tame you you really have to utilise that communication to be able to get it and.

You can't expect.

Your partner to to just magically know no matter how much you wish it so.

You you kind of need to put on your big boy pants or big girl pants and and be the grown up and say, hey, I I'm feeling a bit rough at the moment. Can you please do this when it's usually my job?

So leading up to the birth, had you discussed parental roles?

And what that would look.

Like in a in a same sex marriage and in parenthood, I'm not sure.

If you guys really care about roles, you.

We don't. I try not to think about that too much, but it is something that I had wondered.

No, the the only things we.

Were really concerned about leading up to the birth were, you know, our families because no one in our family has ever had a baby in a non traditional way. Right, everyone like our brothers are straight and they've had kids with their wives. And so we just wanted to make sure.

That there were really clear boundaries.

Around what they could say.

So you know, Stephens, Dada, Brett as Papa crystals, not the mother. She is crystal. So don't call her baby Mama.

Don't. So we sent this email out to everybody. Just sort of saying.

Here's to get everyone on the same.

Page here's the situation.

Like Maverick is both of ours. No one gets to.

You don't say like, oh, he looks just like you or he looks just like him or whatever. We want you to understand.

Like to respect our family that those kind of things are offensive and, you know, we laid.

Out all these these rules.

I don't know that anyone read it or cared.

Mean when he says all these roles, basically those were the rules, right? Like I'm Dada. That's Papa.

He's our child. Exactly those things. And there was, like, maybe a couple other things. Like, yeah, but not too many. That was the only thing that I was sort of slightly concerned about was just people.

Coming over also.

COVID COVID and you know he he wasn't going to be vaccinated until three months. So we just wanted to make sure he was not being exposed. And we have like anti vaxxers in our family and all that stuff so.

Was born in Orlando and we lived in Houston. So on day seven of his life, he flew from Orlando to Houston.

Stress that was super stressful and also it.

It should have been.

Really like 4 hours door to door maybe 5.

It turned out to be.

It was 15 hour day.

And UM, so that was super stressful. That was a big hurdle that we got through and.

We made some mistakes along the way and but we made it.

And there's some good stories.

And never will have crying us crying him crying.

All over our said parking lot and explode.

Right. And night at the airport.

It really is those ****.

Show moments that truly make the entire journey almost worth it.

And the fact that you can look back on those times and and laugh about such things, you know, my first my first time changing my daughters nappy, my best friend.

Who? You know, I've been best friends with him for 10 years and he has.

Seen me in every face.

He's of my life in my scumbag moments in my party, too hard moments, and he never ever thought that he would see me in my parenthood face.

So he was at the hospital and watching me change a nappy for the first.

Time or a diaper, if you will. And this beautiful little.

You know, 16 hour old.

Baby decided to projectile poo into my mouth.

That was the first time I changed a.

Nappy and and you know at the time it.

Was terrifying and horrible and disgusting and I was vomiting in a sink while the midwife was coming in.

Trying to figure out what was going on because I have my best friend laughing in my wife laughing even though she was in absolute agony and it it was just it was.

There was so much going on, but I look back now with just pure fondness for that horrible moment. And it's a beautiful kind of nuance. So.

Obviously with both of you.

Growing up in conservative families or a conservative state, you would have definitely dealt with your fair share of adversity and hatred and bullying and all of those sorts of things.

Did any of those types of experiences in your personal lives come into play in the decision to becoming parents?

Were you worried about the type of backlash you would receive in becoming parents? Would you were you worried that, you know, people would think you're trying to raise a gay son?

Like it's a dirty word or anything like that.

It's funny, they say that because.

Before we had Maverick, I don't think I ever really thought about.

Homophobia, or, you know bigotry. I think I've experienced it in my life, but when you don't have a child, you can tolerate certain things a lot easier.

It just it. You're used to it and you just kind of brush it off. Whereas I don't think we were prepared.

Well, we were kind.

Of warned we we read a book. What was it called? The gay gay, gay dad dads guide.

To parenthood or?

Something it was called, something like that.

There was a whole section. He talked.

When you become a parent, it's like you're coming out all the time, because when now that you're with your husband and you have a baby, it's like people look at you differently.

You know, it's like you're coming out all the time. And I remember saying.

It out loud to Brett. Whatever.

I can handle that this isn't going to be that.

But it it's tricky. It it definitely is a thing. I don't know that it's always homophobia or if it's.

Ignorance or what it is, but there's a lot of.

It's the same thing.

But you know, there are just a lot.

Books. Questions.

It's just it's hard.

To hide it, it's hard to hide that you're.

Gay. When there's a victim, husband and.

Child. It's like, you know, some people might just go, oh, the dads.

Are given the wives.

We've had that happen, right?

But like most of the time when you.

Know it's like get over it. I think that there's I, I will say for me I think there was a motivating factor.

Brothers who were straight, who'd been married multiple times.

Who could just?

Have babies because they were married, you know.

With these women.

And I think they really I think that seeing one particular brother, I just think.

You seeing how much he took advantage of that privilege?

Really see what a gift it was to be able to have a child and raise a child. I remember very specifically thinking I'm going to like I could.

Do such a better?

Job like I could just. I wanted I I want the opportunity to do that and and that same person is like the.

I had to go form.

No contact, no contact with this last year because they're just so ignorant and homophobic and their belief system.

And yet they're the same people who are raising.

Children, right and so.

It it is a motivating factor in the sense that I know that I can contribute like as a parent.

I know that I could raise a child to be the antithesis of what these other people are being taught and.

They can be loved unconditionally, which is not what it what I experienced growing up and they can have this. And so I think that there was a bit of that.

I don't want to say like it's like a revenge motivation, but I remember thinking that in my head like.

I could do such.

A better job I want to do that I hope I get.

To do that one day.

Yeah, and not really knowing that I actually.

Actually would.

But that's I do think that there is a little bit of especially now you're seeing this huge, I don't know if you'll keep up with the United States politics, but there's.

A lot of crazy.

That are happening here, you know, homophobic policies trying to be passed and drag show bans and transgender policies and all these things that just like, are so clearly targeting our community and.

And and it's sad and it's scary, but at the same time, it's like this is, I feel empowered because I'm raising a child who can maybe make a difference.

Certainly. Yeah. Now.

I am very, very well aware of.

The happenings in that beautiful country of yours.

One of the the main reasons why I had reached out to you both to to come on the podcast I I felt for one having a parenting podcast specifically, you know around.

Mental health it was really, really important to me to have representation from all cultures, from all backgrounds. And yeah, I'm.

I'm very honoured that you you were both willing and happy to come on the podcast to share your your lives and your experiences, and it was equally important for me as a straight white.

Man to let you know that I am infinitely proud of you both. And you're doing a great job and I absolutely.

Adore your tik.

Love watching your little family and it's great.

Thank you. Thank you. That means a lot.

Look, you're more than welcome. I think it's it's, you know, even though I am straight and like I'm, you know, my type of person is vilified. I'm a white straight man vilified in, in the LGBTQIA plus community.

As a whole, and that's fine. I'm willing to take that hit.

Going to be loud and proud and tell everyone that it's not all of us and there are some good ones.

And there are some that just want everyone to be happy. And I think the world is such a hate filled place and that was something that I really had to reconcile within myself before I brought kids into the world.

You know, I was incredibly worried about the type of world that my children would grow up in, but at the end of the day, I was able to figure out and understand that even though our world as a whole with, you know, the 8 billion people in it, is quite a scary and hateful place.

Their world doesn't have to be. Their world is within these four walls and within the arms of their parents.

And I think that in itself is powerful, and that in itself can raise an an amazing and loving and empathetic and supportive person.

So yeah, I I mean, I can tell that you both have a tremendous amount of love for each other, but I can also tell that you guys have.

A tremendous amount of love to give to Maverick and that will transfer and he will become an amazing human.

Being so to everyone out there that thinks you guys are going to raise some dirty little heathen hell spawn because of your disgusting, sinful lifestyles can kindly get ******.

It's crazy. I mean, I will say the the most hate like we get is on YouTube.

It's on YouTube.

Yeah, it's weird. And it's usually like Russian bots. Maybe. I don't even know if they're.

I don't even understand like how we're seeing.

To push our content to these people.

It's a strange, strange world, and if you just live in the comments.

You can very easily start to get discouraged and start to think ohh God like why? Why am I doing this?

But I also just remember that 13 year old boy in me who didn't know that any of this was possible, and I just do it for him because I want him to know that he can have all of his dreams.

Come true and be healthy and be happy and.

Regardless of what the people around him are.

Telling him and what he's seeing.

And I do want to talk a little bit about your tick Tock account. So it is at, is it Broadway husbands at Broadway, husbands on TikTok.

Yeah, so how did?

How did that first start? And?

Share a little bit about that journey well.

We started, we started the Instagram account because Brett was making.

Those and he was making like he was a huge overachiever at this point. He was, like, trying to do 4I mean is. But like, he was trying to make like 4 different long form videos month and like 4-4 different categories. And one of the categories was a video with me, and he called it the brother husbands like.

One of the first videos we did was.

Like 5 things to do when you're unemployed.

You know, it's like, get a cold brew, call unemployment. I don't know. Take a walk like, you know, stuff like that.

And and people.

Really responded to it. So that's why we started the Instagram account. Yeah, so.

Instagram was first.

T.O.K really for Brother Husbands took off during the pandemic because when we were quarantined here in Manhattan.

And we were living in a tiny 600 square foot apartment, and so just to.

The apartment we would go to do something.

We would literally go to the park and if we have videos of us wearing gloves and masks in the.

Park it was before we.

Even knew to wear masks. I think we.

Were just wearing gloves like.

And the time to fight COVID we would get.

And and we would just go do dances just to do something physical because we were sitting in the apartment so much and we would record them and put them on TikTok. And that's kind of how our TikTok took off and but we had had the Instagram already.

Just sort of live feed each.

Other feed each.

Other and you know and and the dances people.

Were really responding to during.

The pandemic. So we just kept laughing.

Awesome and cause tick tocks TikTok.

Started off as a like a dance app didn't.

It well, it was originally this app called musically.

Which I have which?

Play with on my own account and then TikTok bought it.

The Chinese I guess.

Version I don't know.

Is it anyway it merged and became TikTok? Yeah, and it was mostly people doing dances and.

I don't know if you remember.

Dubsmash dubsmash is.

Like an app where you lift Saracen.

Yeah, I I think I did it once with the sitting.

On the toilet, lady.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I was obsessed.

With that, smash and I.

Did it all the time. So then when Tik Toks became.

That I was like, oh, this is easy.

Because I had to do this so.

And just kind of merged. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Awesome. Yeah. No, I mean, TikTok is how I found you both. I will unashamedly admit that I had typed in, like, hashtag same sex parents or and and things like that in my quest for finding some suitable guests.

But yeah, no, I I like I didn't pretty pretty deep dive on all of the content that you posted and.

I I was like ohh.

I'd love to talk to these guys some.

More they seem.

Just happy and friendly and supportive and live a life of love. And I I think that's truly special.

So how do you guys?

I'm not sure what.

Your current roles are as far as your.

Careers go, but how do you juggle being parents to an 18 month old? Is that correct? Maverick was 18 months.

13 months. My apologies. So 13 month old.

Both of you have.

Very, very demanding physically and mentally demanding careers.

You have the TikTok that you're active on. You have your Instagram. How do you juggle all of these things while maintaining some semblance of self care?

Good question. We're still trying to figure that out. It's it's it's a constant like the reimagination like recently I'll say that like recently our my schedule from like February 1st until like last week.

Struggle so the balance.

Was really a lot like I was scheduled to work many, many hours every day, six days a week, six days a week, and I just got out of that kind of hell of schedule and we had a moment because I was sick last week, so we actually had time to kind of sit down and, like, talk about how we want to spend our time.

Again, because basically I was working all these hours and then running home to spend as much time.

As I could with.

Because I just felt like I was.

Missing out you.

Know. So I mean I guess the answer to the question is like it's a it's constantly changing.

And the thing that's kind of working for us is that we are talking about what our expectations are for from day to day and they're always a little bit different. But I don't know that we found the balance.

I I I know for me.

It's like I'm so wifely so, so in love with Maverick and just want to do anything and everything with him all the time, that it's really hard for me to step away, to do something for myself, especially when I'm working long hours.

I'm like, well, I just want to be with my.

Son. And like I don't really do anything else.

So I think it's a constant.

Yeah, like I said, the first year was really it's.

Really hard, you know, you're.

You know, you've got three kids now, right? So you know, I imagine it gets a little bit easier each.

A new kid. I don't think it's.

Probably more more.

Z But it's definitely I think you you know what to expect, I mean with the first kid, it's a little more challenging to figure out how to balance things.

And I don't know that we'll ever.

Feel like we're balanced.

I think you're constantly striving for balance, yeah.

But I think that one of.

The one of the things that we have to do is.

Constantly keep our priorities in check. We have to know that like mental health is the most important thing that we're both feeling.

Good about ourselves.

Because we want to come as parents, we want to come to Maverick.

The best versions of.

The most regulated versions of ourselves and not throw any of our own stuff into the ring.

When we're when what?

We need to do is create an open, loving, supportive space for him.

And so if we're feeling those things or stressed or things are coming up, I think it's, you know, we're constantly trying to go, hey, I'm.

I'm noticing this or hey, I'm feeling this. I need to go. Do I need to do something for myself? I need to go for a walk. I need to.

Eat whatever that is, you know, and it's like, OK, well, then we're not going to.

T.O.K Video today, right?

Like, that's not the priority at this.

Moment. So just.

Knowing like it's OK.

Waves. It's OK to not do something because it doesn't line up with the priorities at the.

Moment which should be.

Always your mental, physical, and National Health.

Yeah. Yeah, it is. It is definitely constantly a a balancing act and it's something that's very dynamic and forever changing. So it's great that, you know, even 13 months.

Well, Maverick is able to view the fact that you guys both have that emotional intelligence and are able to understand that those needs are forever changing and that the open communication and the fact that you can admit that it's OK to not be OK and what you need in that moment is.

Incredibly good, and that will certainly, you know, Maverick and any other child that is able to witness their parents go through that and be able to come at it from a place of understanding and open communication, their sponges to that stuff. And that will certainly help in.

Development in the later years, you know, you say it probably gets easier with each child. I'm not sure if you guys are planning on having more, but the jump from two kids to three for me personally was the hardest.

I had my two. My first two were great sleepers. They slept from six weeks old like 12 hours through the night and they were amazing.

But little baby number three came along and we were lulled into a false sense of security with the 1st 2:00 and she just completely sunk our battleships and she's nine months old now and she still hasn't slept a full night through basically.

So it's it's been a, it's been a journey and it is one of the reasons I started this podcast.

So I'm not too sure if you guys have have had a look into any any of my history, but my my 2 year old, my second born was diagnosed with autism around 12 months ago and then I was shortly after diagnosed with ADHD and autism.

So that through my mental health for an absolute loop being a 35 year old man, finding out that I've lived with these things unknown for my entire life.

But it took until I had children and my cup completely overflowed and I was having breakdowns and meltdowns, and I didn't want to be touched or I wanted to be touched more.

Came it came to that for me to gain that level of.

Excuse me, emotional intelligence and those diagnosis were there for me to kind of flourish.

So it's a double edged sword for me. I've done a lot of self growth and a lot of learning about who I am as a person in the last 12 months, but I've also really been through the ringer.

As as far as being a parent and trying to keep my own head above water while you know rowing the the boat for my family to make sure they're all provided for and taking care of. So I I certainly understand the need for self care and.

And the dynamic and ever like changing landscape of of parenthood and just you know your own self of sense of identity.

Yeah. God. Well, God bless you and your family. And it's what a that's going to be such a gift for you all to go through this journey together. I mean, seriously. So I haven't. My oldest brother is actually on the spec.

From and it's a very unique experience having a sibling you know he he's pretty mild, you know. So we're pretty blessed in that way, but it's very it's a very unique experience for a family and it makes it your family very close.

Yeah, we're still, we're still trying to figure out how my son kind of fits into the spectrum. We are incredibly lucky that he is not non verbal, not that that's a dirty thing or anything like that. Everyone has their own journeys. But you know he.

Talking quite well, we had early interventions in place. He's now in, you know, occupational therapy. Every fortnight he goes and has therapy with animals, which is super awesome.

You know, he gets to touch a whole heap of.

Different animals.

And that gets him used to different smells and different, you know, sensory inputs and just seeing how far he has come in the short time that he's been in.

Those types of.

Therapies is is absolutely incredible. Yeah. Sorry, sorry. This this podcast is more about you guys, not about.

Me, I do want to.

Discuss your love and your relationship with Disneyland.

Because we don't have a Disneyland here and there are a lot of Tik, toks and everything out there that people are just so, so, so about Disneyland and I see people go every week and live.

Their lives there.

And can you tell me a?

About why you love Disneyland so much.

And how that has?

Shaped your relationship and your relationship with Maverick.

You know, I love this question.

Well, well, we love Disneyland because Disneyland is the original and.

Bulbs had inputs and helped create it and was actually there. So his spirit is there. The details there. Well, you know, Brett blames his Disney addiction partly on me because one of our first our first Christmas together, I bought him this Walt Disney.

And in the biography, you know, it goes through all the Disney shorts. So all of the Disney shorts brought was ordering them and they were showing up. And he started watching DVD.

And umm, so he kind of blames like he was always into Disney and loved going to Disney World and Disneyland but.

When he read that biography, it kind of like opened up like a new chapter.

Tell you my my affinity for Walt Disney is that I find him so inspiring as a visionary because he was someone who took. But I think it's very difficult thing to do.

Is taking art and making it commercially successful. You know, theatre kind of does it sometimes, but he was able to hire artists, help them become better artists, you know, invent so many new forms of art using technology.

She was such a.

Forward thinker and there's no one.

And to this day that I think has really in the world of entertainment and in the world of of moving people and helping people and connecting people through stories, there's just no one that's been able to do what he was able to do. And Disneyland is the immersive personification of.

His legacy. So I feel like whenever I go there, it's like I'm being immersed in his brain. That guy's vision of what he thought was possible and what he thought he could do for people and for families in particular. And because that was the whole point of Disneyland, was that Disneyland was the.

1st place that was built for everyone. It wasn't just for kids, it was for a place where kids and adults could sit side by side and both enjoy the experience together.

And that was the first time anyone had ever tried to do that. And so I think that what is fascinating is that as families.

The definition of family changes and what family means and how families look different than they did in 1955, when Disneyland opened Disneyland.

And Disney has this opportunity to show the world families can look like ours. Families can look like whatever and the and there's a safe place for them to go and experience.

Joy and stories and in experiences together.

And just just really quickly, we took, we took Maverick to Disneyland this past summer.

He's three months. He was three months, almost four, and my dream was to take him on the Storybook Canal boat ride.

Attraction and and you know that was like my vision. I was like, I just want to take him on the storybook canals.

And he slept the.

Whole time it was really cute.

And sweet. And he was so.

Happy I was so happy. And then?

And then we are going to go to Disney World in July in Florida. So hopefully and he'll definitely really be walking then.

And I think it'll be like, really, really fun it.

Will be really.

Hot, but it will be really fun experience.

Yeah. What was your follow-up question? Yeah, sorry.

The follow up question in and and I'm not trying to put a negative.

Been on Disney or anything like that, but it is something that I am wondering.

In today's society, especially around social media and cancel culture, did you have any any thoughts or feelings towards you know your fandom for Disney even though Walt himself has been known to not be the most accepting of other?

Cultures or lifestyle choice?

Well, it's interesting when I hear people say that.

Because I've read a lot of.

Books and I've done a lot of research and I even.

Met Walt Disney.

'S daughter and.

I met his nephew and this is not in defence, he.

Was not a perfect.

Person and he he was not a.

Great. He was also a person of his.

Time. I'm sorry I'm not interrupting.

Somebody who was known to be very combative and very and lead with a very mean hand, but he was also a, as you said, a vilified straight white man in the 1930s Twenties, 30s and very rich. So I think he was a product of his time.

But I think the idea that.

He was somehow not open to other cultures is a is misleading or the fact that he some people say he was anti, you know, anti Semitic or he was racist is is.

Is misleading because he was a product of his time. He was he created films and TV shows that had what would be now seen as racist. What would be now seen as probably anti Semitic. But at the time we're completely accepted.

Jokes and you know things that that not the the not only Walt Disney incorporated into.

His films Warner Brothers put them in their films Universal put them in their films. They were production studios. That was definitely part of the culture at the time and I my belief is that while Disney gets Flack for it because his name is the one attached right, he's not Universal Studios. It's Walt Disney.

That's not to say that it's good that that those things happen. It is, there's, you know, definitely repercussions for those choices and that, you know, America has is working on sort of rectifying its own cultural bias.

But I think it's misleading to say he that Walt Disney himself was not accepting of those because he had an amazing amount of Jewish.

People that worked.

For him and some who became extremely long term partners, the the the Sherman brothers, who wrote all of this Disney famous.

Disney songs were just famous, you know, very you.

Know openly Jewish brothers.

They were black people who were animators who worked on the theme parks.

So you know, should there have been more opportunities for them? Of course, but that was not America in the 20s and the 30s and the 40s and it's luckily changed.

So I'm not trying to defend any of those choices, but I just think that it's very easy to to throw one man under a bus.

When his name is attached to what has become a legacy and instead not see that he was just doing what was popular at the time, and almost every single other production company, twenty 20th Century Fox, Warner Brothers universities, they were all doing the same kind of products.

And they don't get.

The kind of hate and and sort.

Of negative speech that he does so.

That's my that's my soapbox.

Yeah, no, definitely. And and I do agree with you, I I for 1:00 AM not really fond of the cancel culture.

I I feel like life is far too dynamic for it to just be that black and white. And like, you know, this person said something on Twitter, you know, in 2005 that.

In today's standards, is not OK. I don't feel like they should then spend the rest of their lives in exile in their careers or in their personal lives.

Like you know, everyone should have that chance of a redemption story. I, for one, think that Walt Disney as a company have done it.

Incredibly, correctly now with Disney plus and instead of erasing those scenes that could be portrayed as racist or offensive to any other kind of culture or religion, instead of deleting those scenes, they have put the disclaimers at the start of the.

Movies and there is an option to turn off those scenes, but I think that is the right way to go and I think I think that's that's incredibly important to.

Well, and I will say.

It's also easy, you know, just it's like you have to separate the man from the company and they're they're not the same thing, right? So the company creates products and those products have to be sellable and make money.

And there's an interesting thing that now the company in the last few years, they've they've had the same values for decades that they corporate values, that they trained every single employee on right and they added inclusion in the last three years. They've never changed their values and they added inclusion.

As one of their top priorities and you see that in everything that they do now, you see them very, very hard at, I mean this this new Little Mermaid movie, they don't need to make a new Little Mermaid movie.

They're making a new Little Mermaid movie on purpose because little black girls deserve to see themselves as the leads in.

The Little Mermaid.

You know there, there's this new movie, Strange world, that sun is queer identifying and and is in love with the boy and the dad and the grandfather just don't make an issue of it.

They're just like, Oh my gosh, that's so cool. You know, when I first wanted to impress somebody, it's like, yeah.

It's like, yeah, it's been out for a.

You just have any time to watch it.

But it got banned in.

A lot of countries because.

Of it. And Disney didn't care like we are. This is the film we wanted to make and we are releasing this film.

And so if you look at what they're doing now, to me, they're taking what Walt Disney built and they're turning it into something, regardless of what Governor de.

Santas is trying to do regardless of what these red states are trying to do. They're standing by this value of inclusion, and their and their.

Continuing to create content.

That puts that at the forefront.

Yeah, yeah. I think it's incredibly important. My, my daughter and I just watched the new Peter Pan last night, and Tinkerbell is is a.

Fairy of colour.

Yeah, and. And my daughter made that distinction straight away. And I think that's that. Hatred isn't born. It's made.

And I think anyone that's going to kick up a fuss about those types of things.

How about the last boy who was being played? There was a lost boy being played by a.

Down syndrome kid?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, incredibly important.

In the film and it's it's incredibly important to see that and to see that like how capable even someone with Down syndrome is to play a major role in a in a major motion picture. I mean that to me is like we don't see companies.

Putting the kind of money into something a product like that, that because that movie I watched the Peter Pan movie it.

Is looks so expensive.

Yeah, it's, it's. It was a beautiful. It's a beautiful looking movie. I think as far as the inclusion goes and and everything like that, there really is a defining line in society where there's, you know.

The people that.

That come at it from a place.

Of hate are really, really vocal.

Online about saying, you know, I'm sick of everyone pushing this crap down mine and my kids.

Throats and and all of this, but what they don't understand is that all it is is it's it's not a push to not it's not a push to be in your face or to offend you. It's just purely to normalise it. And the more output we see of that inclusion of.

Every race or culture, or background or disability, the more we see that included in the media that we consume, the more normalised and non issue it will be down the track for and it's not going to happen in our generation. You know our generation is still very, very hateful, but that inclusion will.

Will help exponentially for future generations to just see lovers love and people as people. And I think that's magic in itself. So for that, I love Walt Disney for for being that defining line in the sand.

Me too. Yeah, I think it's also interesting, just this idea of people.

Sort of turning the word woke into this weapon and you know, I like there's a video our friend Alexandra Billings, a transactor.

Love. And she she shows she does this.

A lot, and she'll say somebody will say I don't redneck, I don't know somebody who's like.

You know, imagination person will say I'm I'm a woman. I'm not sis, I'm not assistant or person. I'm a woman. It's.

It's so ignorant, it's like, don't call me sis. It's like.

No one. No one's calling me.

Sis, you just are a SIS general person.

Like it's not no one.

'S calling you that. It's just a fact. It's just it's just such a fascinating thing to say to to turn facts into into this thing that it's like if no one.

'S trying to be woke.

Like moments, I'm, I'm.

Not a. We are not a woke thing. We just are. We are people who are married.

Just exist, yes.

We just exist and that's.

All we're trying to do is just find.

A place where we exist and and we.

Can see ourselves on screen.

And that's why we.

Started our TikTok, that's why.

We started our YouTube is to create that space.

For for people like us, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, you.

You're doing great work and I really appreciate the work that you're doing as a vilified.

Keep up the good work and I'll keep watching my watching your tick tocks with my daughter. She loves watching you guys, she.

She has a good time with her.

Well, before we wrap up, is there anything else you?

Guys would like to add.

No. Just come say hi.

Follow us already. Come, follow us and say hello and we're, you know, would love to come to your part of the the.

Yeah, hopefully we can come to Australia at some.

Time would be cool.

Yeah, super cool. If you're ever here and find yourself in country Victoria, shoot me a message. We'll catch up.

Great. Awesome. Thanks so much for your time guys. I think it's quite late there, so I'll let.

You get to bed and.

Do you think thank you so much?

Kevin, alright, have a good one.

Wake up another day.

Try and find a way to make it so my life's a better place. If there's one thing I see, then the only thing is me knowing that I'm trying to make a get up. Put it.

Only responsibilities.

And all the other nonsense coming by repeated.

There's something I know it's night.

Just knowing that in China make a change.