The Shaka Project | Grassroots Change & Sean's Mission to Support Men's Mental Health

We would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of this land. We pay our respects to the Elders past, present and emerging, for they hold the memories, the traditions and the culture of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people across the nation. Warning this podcast contains explicit language and discusses sensitive topics related to mental health childhood trauma, birth trauma, abuse, miscarriage and suicide. Listener discretion is advised. If you find these subjects distressing or triggering, we recommend taking caution and considering whether to proceed with listening. If you or someone you know is struggling, please reach out to a mental health professional or a trusted individual for support. Your wellbeing is our priority.

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Touched Out podcast. Today I chat with Sean, the founder of the Shaka Project, who took his own experiences with mental health and turned them into a mission to support men everywhere. From his journey as a gym owner in Ballarat and Bendigo to establishing a charity that uses conversation starting t-shirts, sean shares his compelling story of passion, resilience and community building. Discover how his lived experience, mixed with his dedication to his daughters, shaped his approach to mental health advocacy.

So take a breath from everything right here and Take some time. It's alright, you'll be fine after touch of a cat. Take all night, you'll be fine, it's all right. The Touchdown Podcast.

Today we've got Sean. Sean is the founder of the Shaka Project, a men's mental health charity. Thank you for joining me. You've flown in from to Bangkok last night and it's 20 past six where you are now, so I really appreciate you jumping on to have a chat with me. How are you going?

Thank you so much for having me, matt. I really appreciate it. I'm going well. I'm a little bit tired, it's been a pretty big 24 hours, but I'm going well. I'm over here for the International Suicide Prevention Conference, so it's a pretty important week, with it being a pretty important month. So, yeah, looking forward to the week over here and learning, hopefully, some preventative skills for Australia.

Awesome, that's great. So why don't we start off by you telling me a little bit about yourself and a little bit about your personal life and your history?

Yeah, absolutely so. I was born in Ballarat in Victoria. I lived there for about 29 years and I've only recently moved down to Torquay, just down the surf coast near Geelong. There I'm a father. So I've got a 10-year-old and a six-year-old little girl and they're sort of well of. They are my entire life. They're my best friends and I love them dearly and I essentially, if I'm not doing stuff with the chakra and working and stuff like that, I'm spending as much time as I possibly can with them, especially my daughter, and you know I love footy, love to know I'm an AFL fan, love my sport, love my gym and working out and running and stuff like that too. So I suppose I'm a reasonably boring dad. I just have that little bit of a passion for mental health, especially mental health, and passion for people as well.

Awesome. So you're a Ballarat boy, I'm a Bendigo boy.

Oh, there we go, you're a rock one Springfield and Shelbyville. That's what it is. Yeah, I think it's probably died down now, but no, I'm born there, born and raised and, yeah, moved down to the coast last year so I spent a bit of time in Bendigo. I actually had a gym in Bendigo for about two years, so I worked there for quite a while. But, yeah, bailed out for the majority of it, but down to the beach now and couldn, which is much nicer.

Yeah, riff and my brother and his family just moved to Anglesey, so, yeah yeah, around about the same area down on the great ocean road there. Yeah, great spot, great stop. Yeah, no, it's beautiful, awesome I. I, before we started recording, I wanted to make sure that it was fresh in my mind and everything like that, so I made sure I didn't do too much research, because I want to learn from you instead of from words. I'm ADHD, so that's how I like to do things. So why don't you run me through how the Shaka Project was born? What's the history there?

Yeah, so I suppose it was born from when I, before I had the Shaka Project, I was a gym owner, I was a personal trainer, I had a couple of gyms in Ballarat and that one in Beddingo as well, and throughout the time I was doing that for about 14 years and throughout the time, I see, mental health was a really big part of my life since the age of 15. I can go into that a little bit later as well, but when I started to run my own businesses and really want to sort of make a bit of an impact, every single time I do maybe a fundraiser or any sort of event, I'd make sure that I do it for mental health, especially men's mental health. I was always very passionate about it and I suppose where the Shaka came from is I really wanted to make a personal impact. So I thought there was a bit of a gap there when it came to how we can actually make a personal impact on somebody's mental health. There was an event that I raised around $10,000 to $12,000. It was a 24-hour treadmill challenge. So we had all these people come into my gym, ran on the treadmill for 24 hours. It was exhausting, it was unbelievably tiring and an emotional experience, and we were able to raise a fair bit of money and when we donated this money we raised about $10,000 or $11,000.

We got a really generic email back from this charity. It's one of the big four charities. I won't mention who it is, but it was a really generic email that essentially just said thanks for your donation and it sort of really rubbed me out the wrong way a little bit. I'm like I really wanted to be able to make a personal impact and see what this could actually do. This funding could do so. From there I just thought, right, what can I do to make a personal impact? I'm very big on. You know, if you're passionate about something, make it your life and make it something that you can actually make impactful moments on other people's lives as well. So the idea was to start a t-shirt brand and the idea behind using the t-shirts was that we would put a permission slip or some sort of acknowledgement that I have empathy, I have understanding for mental health. I'll put it on a t-shirt and that's going to allow you to open up and talk to me. It's a conversation starter and, you know, if we can encourage a conversation, ignite a conversation, then maybe, and just maybe, we can start a positive conversation around, especially mental health and suicide prevention, and we can. We can change some lives. So that was the idea. It was a very, very small idea, a bit of a side passion.

I remember pumping $1,500 of my savings into these T-shirts and singlets and my partner at the time was not happy with me at all because we were away on holidays at the time in Cairns and obviously trying to have a good time. I had to be pretty strict with money because I just put it into all these T-shirts and singlets. So I launched that and pretty quickly it became evident that this is something that Australia really connected to. It was something that Australia really wanted and, I think, needed as well. We were. You know, within 24 hours of launch all the t-shirts and singlets were sold out, went, you know, quite viral. So the Facebook post, you know, had like 10,000 shares from all over Australia. We had orders from interstate, from international.

At this point I had no idea even how to send a T-shirt in the mail. You know, when this order came through from New South Wales, I'm like what do we do here? How do I do this? I just assumed that people from Ballarat would buy it and I could just go drop it off. So would buy it and I could just go drop it off. So it went pretty crazy for the first month or so.

And once I saw this again, I saw that there's a really big want for this and need for this. So I essentially just doubled down and what was a passion project quickly became something that I was working on every single day. I still have the gym, so I was still a personal trainer. And then COVID hit. And once COVID hit, it was we had to shut the gyms for about 13 months, which was pretty hard but slight blessing in disguise, because it gave me more time to work on the Shaka project.

And once we reopened and opened up the gyms again, I sort of walked into the gyms and thought you know, this isn't my passion anymore. I could sort of take it out of my life for the better and I decided to sort of chase it full time. So five years on, here we are. That's my full-time position now, full-time gig, and I'm extremely lucky. I get to travel the world and speak to some amazing people about suicide prevention, not only in Australia but around the world, in what we can do to help people, how we can prevent suicide and what we can do to change the cultures around mental health, suicide prevention, drugs, alcohol, all these different things as well, just to essentially change those statistics, especially back home in Australia.

Yeah, beautiful, it's a great story and it's not entirely removed from my own story. Essentially, the same things that you've just said is why this podcast was birthed For different reasons on surface level, but underneath the water, it was just to be the change that I want to see in the world and help people start those conversations, especially the really hard conversations, the ones that make people uncomfortable, the ones that are still stigmatized to this day. I want to make sure that I can provide this platform and this just safe space where people could just essentially trauma dump. It's like therapy without it being therapy. So it's awesome that you've taken on that role and taken on that responsibility. It's amazing to see so many people that are coming to the party now, especially with your brand. It is a conversation starter, but it's there for people who aren't necessarily ready to talk about their own journeys but are willing to project that they support the conversations and everything like that. So it's massive, massive steps in the right direction.

Yeah, I think it's really important as well. I was actually talking to someone was it a dinner on Friday night back in Geelong? And a guy asked me he was very much into business, growth and stuff and he said what do you sell, what's your charity's purpose and what do you actually sell? And a lot of companies like this will say, all right, we sell the T-shirts, we sell this, we sell that. But I think a really important thing to me personally is that we sell a community and a conversation. That's it. And community is something that everybody wants to be a part of.

Now, whether that be a podcast community, you might have a set amount of listeners that listen to you every single episode. That's your community and that's more powerful than absolutely anything. Those guys that listen, they love that. They're a part of your community. So the same thing with the Shackle Project.

As soon as someone either buys a t-shirt or shares a post or comments on a post or sends us a message or you know, we jump on a podcast with them, we recommend them into the, the community, and you know when, when you're part of something, it just makes you feel a bit better too. So that's the big thing with with me personally is that I want to be able to just welcome as many people as you possibly can into the community and, every now and then, triple that message, that that says, hey, you know, if you're struggling, it's okay to talk about it, it's okay to seek some support. We're here, there's support services here, you're in our community now We've got your back and you know, let's fight this together too. So community and you know, authenticity is really big for me and you know that's something that I really, you know, continue to grow as much as I possibly can in the charity, just to make sure everyone's been part of something.

Yeah, definitely. It's a pretty great experience to kind of when you sit with it and think about the beginnings and where we came from especially anyone in the mental health field Because since starting the podcast I've switched careers and I'm now a mental health support worker full-time. I was in youth justice beforehand, which is still kind of in the mental health realm. Before that, I was in finance and call centers for like 15 years. So just kind of going through the beginnings of the podcast and realizing that there is that community that cares about what I have to say and they care about what I've been able to provide to them Changed my life literally.

It's made me want to pursue every waking moment in this field and help people. From what I can understand and from everyone that I've met that are in the same field as me, like mental health support, it all comes from lived experience. You have to have that empathy and you have to have that lived experience. It's not a matter of like I understand, like and imagine what it's like to walk a mile in your shoes, like it's people that have walked miles in those shoes. So in saying that, what, what's your, your history in mental health looking like, if you're comfortable talking about it yeah, yeah, absolutely so.

I suppose my story um was uh, when I was 12 actually so pretty young, and it started from my dad sat my brother and I down and he I thought we're in trouble. I was, I was a bit of a shitty kid, so I thought I was in trouble. And he sat us down and he said you know, your dad next to talk to you, and he looked us both in the eye and he said Dad's sick. And you know, at the time, when I was 12, the only really illnesses that I knew and kind of understood were cancer and a stroke, because I had talked to my grandparents. And you know, he continued to talk and he said Dad's got this thing. It's called depression and that's something that's you know. He said that it's something in dad's head. Sometimes dad's going to be a really good dad. Sometimes he's probably not going to be a great dad. Sometimes he might not be here. And he said but it's not going to take me, it's not going to. You know, I'm not going to leave, but it's going to be hard. And when he talked to me about it again at the age of 12, I was like I don't really care. He said he's not going to leave. So it must be fine. It wasn't cancer, it wasn't a stroke. My mind, my 12-year-old mind, said well, he must be fine.

So over the next couple of years, I really saw what this thing called depression was doing to my father. It was doing to my mother as well. Their marriage, their marriage, eventually broke down and it was doing to myself and my brother as well. And when I got to the age of 15, I started to get some anxiety and I started to experience these feelings of extreme loneliness and sadness and not wanting to go to school, not wanting to get up, not wanting to see anyone, see my parents, see my brother resorting to self-harm and having these suicidal thoughts. And once I started to experience these thoughts and these emotions, I was able to identify it really quickly. Because of what my dad spoke to me about when I was 12. And this is something I speak about a lot when I do workshops or go to do keynote events is, you know, the power of having a conversation with your kids is is quite unbelievable, you know. It's literally, literally saved my life.

Once I realized at the age of 15 that this was what dad had, I was able to go and seek some support. I was also able to say, well, if, if dad can talk about it, I can talk about it, and if dad can seek support about it, so can I. So that was something really powerful for me that I probably didn't realize until I was in my sort of early 20s, because a lot of my mates grew up with the idea that as boys especially, we can't talk about our feelings, we can't go seek support, we can't speak up when we're not doing so well. So that was something really powerful for me and probably saved my life when I was really young, in saying that. Obviously you know everyone that's got lived experience knows that mental you can go six and support, but unfortunately that isn't it. So 16 years now, 16 years on from that, I've suffered mental health every single day, sometimes really good, have great days, and then sometimes pretty awful days and scary days as well too. So throughout that sort of 16 years I've gone through crisis mode and crisis stage a fair few times. For those who aren't sort of too sure what that crisis mode is, it's essentially when you are completely okay, comfortable with the thought of self-harm and suicide, and throughout that time I have made many attempts in my life and there's a few times that are pretty etched in my memory. As most people who've gone through that, they can remember nearly every single moment, throughout the day and throughout the night, and leading up and after as well. And I think the biggest things in these moments is when I was in these moments I was just, I was completely okay with it, I was completely comfortable, I wasn't scared of dying, I wasn't scared of harming myself. And at the time you go through these moments and these experiences, you don't see a future, you don't see anything that could possibly happen that could make you happy.

And I often talk about one story where I was in my car on a Sunday afternoon down in Ballarat and I was sitting there on the side of the road, on a dirt road there, and I remember sitting there, looking at my front windscreen and about 50 metres ahead of me, seeing a really, really big tree, and this mind frame of mine that I was in just told me he said this would be a perfect place to do it. Just close your eyes, go straight, get a bit of speed. There we go pretty quick. And you know, in that moment, once again, I wasn't scared, I wasn't fearful of dying. It was sort of the only thing that I could think about was right, go straight ahead, go towards the tree, hit it, close your eyes. Surely it won't hurt and you'll be done. Surely I won't hurt and you'll be done. And that's what I did. So I you know what felt like five minutes. I only took about five or six seconds for me to get to the tree.

And as I approached the tree, you know again, these thoughts of finally you know, this is good for you, sean, this is what you need started creeping through and within you know, an instant, I felt a massive crash on the side of the car. You know, my first reaction was to chuck the foot on the brake and open my eyes. And as I opened my eyes, I could see trees and shrubs and branches, you know, smashed up against my front windscreen. I quickly realized that I missed a tree. I didn't hit the tree, and the first thing I said to myself was you know, you fucking idiot, but not for what I did, what I just did, but because I couldn't even do this. You know I could never get this right and you know I hated myself for that. I just thought, you know, that it's something that was so easy. All you have to do is go straight, and you couldn't even get this right. If you get this right, you're an absolute piece of shit. You're useless, and you know when that happened.

I remember sitting there and I sat there for about five, ten minutes and tried to understand what had just happened and I eventually got up the courage to get out of the car and try and sort of understand what happened and why I missed this tree. And as I walked around the back of the car I noticed about five, ten minutes, behind the car was an oil ditch that was just over a rise. I quickly realized that that was the bang that I felt going over. I must have hit the oil ditch with my left tire and knocked me out of the way of the tree by centimeters. It wasn't by much at all. That's the kind of shit that you see in movies and the kind of shit that if you did that again today it probably wouldn't happen. That was really big for me. That was probably one of the most memorable, you know, attempts, because it really resonates with me, with my daughter.

Now, my daughter is a really big reason for me to keep going. She's my best friend in my absolute life and I often say, you know, when I was in that moment, I'm not a man of faith, but I sort of thought, you know, there's got to be a reason why I miss this tree. There's got to be a reason I'm still here today and every single time that I see, you know, my daughter put a smile on somebody else's face or make someone else happy or make me happy, you know, I think back to that moment and I think, well, that's why I miss the tree. I didn't miss the tree so I could be in Bangkok, although I love it here. I didn't miss the tree so I could travel or or jump on this podcast. I missed the tree so that, you know, my daughter could bring happiness to other people. And yeah, because when I was, when I was in that car looking forward, she wasn't born yet. I didn't see her, I didn't see my future.

And I think it's important to talk about that, because a lot of people right now, like, right this second, as we record this are in that crisis mode, in that that thought that you know, if I go now, it'll be done, my pain will be gone, this pain will go away, and it's a very real feeling, very real emotion that people are going through right now and it's it's really scary, and I think if we can talk about it as much as it hurts to talk about it, it might be able to, you know, again make people feel like they are not alone, show them that these feelings are very, very real, they're very valid and that you know their future absolutely needs you. And it might be the future that you can't see. You know it might be kids, it might be a career, it might be a partner that you can't see. It might be kids, it might be a career, it might be a partner. We never know what it could be.

But that's my biggest motivator when I'm having a rough time as well. You know I haven't been in that crisis mode for almost two years now, which has been a really big win for me. I know that if I ever do get into that crisis mode again, that my mantra will be you know your future needs you. The people in your life that you haven't even met. You know it might be kids, it might be this, it might be that they absolutely need you too. So that's a big mantra of mine to keep going and to keep working on my mental health and seek some support through those different processes too. So, yeah, that's one of the more sort of pinnacle to my mental health journey, but I think it's really important to to say that.

You know, although I run this charity and run this brand and and work, you know, in suicide prevention, every single day I don't have the cure. I don't have the. You know the, the 10 tips to to cure your mental health. I suffer with it every single day. I think about suicide every day, and when I say that it, it's not saying that I think about suicide ideation every day, but every day suicide is on my mind because it's something that I'm trying to prevent. So it's something that's definitely there with me every single day, every single moment that I'm having a rough time. But it's also something that, over the last three years especially, I've really worked on personally to ensure that I don't get back to that moment. And if I do get back to that moment, that I am prepared for it and I can, I can get through it as well definitely it's.

It's always it's like a double-edged sword hearing hearing other people's kind of suicide attempt stories, because I always like I've been there myself, I've had several attempts it's always strange to hear subtle differences, but almost always overwhelmingly the same. So I mean I'm happy to share mine as well. I don't know if I've shared it with my audience before, but my mum was diagnosed with breast cancer when I was 12. We had just moved to Bendigo because she got remarried. So I was in a strange town knowing no one but my mom and my stepdad, who I already did not like, and then all of a sudden, you know, there was this threat of my mom being taken away from me and that was the only thing I had left in this strange town and it was fucking terrifying.

So here I was in like my pivotal teen, you know, going into 13, going into teenhood, starting at a brand new school with this massive cloud of cancer hanging over me. And I think I got to about it was around about 14 and I just hadn't. I had enough to be there for me and care for me and love me was wrapped up in my mum's cancer treatment and her, you know, working to the bone, trying just to survive every day. And I was just like like no one will miss me, they don't even notice that I'm here now and when I'm alive. So like I was just done with it, I was already being like ridiculously bullied in school because I was like the fat kid. So I was like I'm done. So I found a tree tied a rope, tied a noose, and jumped and the rope snapped and it was just, like you said, one of those weird moments where it's like proper second chance kind of thing. But at the same time the difference for me like if you said like I'm so stupid, I can't even kill myself, I can't even get that right, it was like it's just reinforcing that I really was the fucking fat kid, like I can't even kill myself because the fucking rope snapped. You're too fat. And that one, yeah, that was a hard one to kind of deal with because like that's scary taking that jump, that's scary stuff.

And then for it to not work out the way I had planned it, and then that just to reinforce my own self-image, I was almost worse off in my mental health in the aftermath, but then was also what I felt to be too cowardly to try it again. So my mental health was even worse for years after that and my behavior reflected that, and it took me a very, very long time to dig myself out of that massive hole. I wish back then that I had access to things like your charity, my podcast, the friend group that I have, the community that I've created. Now I had none of that. I had toxic friends and drugs to just numb myself as long as possible. So I'm super thankful that there are fools like what we have created in the world now for other people to hear, and I'm sure you're quite the same.

But I've received messages from people saying like I just listened to this episode and like this it's. It's nice to know that I'm not alone. It's kind of like a problem shared is a problem halved. But if there's that community of 50, 100, 1,000, however many if we all share that problem together, it's not only halved, it's just a massive, massive weight. Just to know that you're not alone in those feelings. And that's the most important part of what both of us are doing is that those conversations can carry on and they can echo throughout wherever they're being listened to, and even if people don't realize it now, those conversations are helping them because they know that there are other people out there that are feeling the things that they're feeling, and they don't have to feel alone yeah, absolutely spot on, mate, and thank you for you know, sharing your story and your vulnerability and I think you know vulnerability is something you know really does open up some incredible conversations.

I call it the bro ball effect when it comes to men's mental health. So you know, if we have one bro that that stands up and be vulnerable and opens up, permission, it gives permission to all these other mates to also also open up. And it's that bro ball effect that eventually everyone's going to open up. They're going to tell this, excuse me, and we're going to, you know, really really see some vulnerability that can, can save some lives. And I think you know, if we can, we can all be vulnerable. It's really hard I'm not taking away that it's, I'm not saying that's an easy thing to get up and say, hey, I've struggled before I've, I've I've thought about suicide before I've I've self-harmed. That's really hard to talk about, it really, really hard. But when we do, we give permission to all the people that love us dearly that we've been there as well and we give them permission to say, right, well, he can talk about it, she can talk about it, so can I. And I think it's again as I said at the start, people being a part of a community when you build a relationship with someone, that's that. That's got that mental health factor as well. It's really amazing, it's really beautiful.

I've got mates from you know all over Australia that I've met through the Shaka project and we've got the mateship where we can go. You know, I went with with one of them a couple of weeks ago and we had a good feed, we had a couple of beers, we talked shit, but also for about 25, 30 minutes we said, right, how's your mental health, how are you doing, what are you experiencing, what are you going through? And that was merely because we built a relationship that can be a normal relationship, but we can also have this influence of mental health in it too, so we can have that mateship. So I have this influence of mental health in it too, so we can have that mateship. We can have the, you know, being two blokes having a beer and having a chat and having a yarn, but we can also have those serious conversations too. And once you infuse that into your relationship with your mates and that comes from being vulnerable and being open it makes it a really beautiful friendship.

It makes a really beautiful mateship that you can have with people and I know that I can call them up right now in tears and say, mate, I'm struggling, can we have a chat Now? If we go back 10 years ago, that wouldn't have happened. You know, if we go back 15 years ago and I tried to call someone crying, especially a bloke, you know he'd probably call me a few names and hang up on me. So when we show that vulnerability and when we share our story whether it be the whole story or just a little bit it's a really powerful thing that we can do for our mates, to give them permission to also share and have that bro ball effect and really start some conversations that could save a life.

Yeah, 100%. So what's in store for the Sharker Project? Is there any big movements or big plans for the future? And yourself personally, how do you continue the bro ball effect from here, like you've already accomplished so much, but the only way is to continue that trajectory, right.

Yeah, look, a big move for me over the next 24 or 48 months is just to continue to change the culture around mental health, especially with young men. When I talk about cultures, I mean you know the drinking drugs, gambling, the bloke banter that we often see on social media pages. That is actually destroying people's mental health, the connection between gambling, drugs and alcohol to mental health and suicide that is, I suppose, enached with young boys and young men. You know, you turn on any sport these days and every second out is gambling and you know we look at that. Oh, that's a gambling problem, but it's not. It's a mental health problem too. There's so many men that are working their ass off during the week to put all their money on the punt or all their money into drugs and alcohol throughout the weekend. They get to Sunday. They've got poor mental health, they've got their money in the bank account, they're coming down from drugs and that's when we lose them, that's when we lose people to suicide. So it's, you know, except for just going to the, to the source, and I think, a lot of the times when we talk about mental health, and you know when months like the month we're in now, which is, which is men's health month. It's mental health month is.

We often get messages from people saying, oh well, the government just needs to do more, the government just needs to do more funding and this, and that there's plenty of funding out there. There's plenty of money out there for mental health. When people say that to me, the first thing I say is that mental health and suicide prevention starts when you get into the next Uber. You get into and you take out your AirPods and you have a conversation with the person. Mental health and suicide prevention starts when you go order a coffee at your barista. You put your phone down, you look at the barista in the eye and you say hello, how's your day, can I please have this? You know these little things that we actually need to start. There's plenty of funding, there's plenty of money out there for different charities and organizations and this, and that it is what we have to do as everyday people when it comes to suicide prevention. Well, yes, you know you're calling your mate and saying, hey, I'm a bit worried about you. You've been drinking a bit too often, you're drinking more than usual and you know, I saw last night you got onto some drugs and a bag and stuff like that. I'm worried about you. Are you okay? I'm coming around, let's go for a coffee, let's go for a walk.

It starts there, you know. It starts of what we can do for our community and start those conversations within the people in our friendship group, within our loved ones, and then we can grow from there. So a big, big thing of what I'm doing with the charity over the next 24 months is doing that is, you know, changing the cultures and the conversations around mental health, getting to as many communities as we possibly can and changing the way we speak to each other, changing the way we look at mental health and trying to start at the bottom and change people's aspects and ideas around mental health, suicide, self, the connection and the correlation to so many harmful things that are unfortunately embedded in the Australian culture. So shifting that and really really seeing if we made an impact that way, because unfortunately everything else isn't working very well for us. We can build million dollar support services and all this sort of stuff, but I think if we go back to the roots of everything and just start talking to people and talking to individuals, then we can have a bit more of a positive impact on this very, very tough challenge too. So that's the idea over the next 24 months that's why I'm over here is to learn from some of the best doctors and psychiatrists and psychologists in the world. Personally, my passion is this my passion is to get more people talking. So continue to do that as much as possible you can, whilst looking after my own mental health as well, and continue to grow in those areas as well too.

But, yeah, a lot of work to do about a lot of work, but it'll be never ending. All that sort of stuff. That's definitely work we can, we can achieve, and the best thing about the suicide prevention space is that it's very collaborative. I'm over here with some of the biggest organizations in the world and some from Australia, from all over the shop and you know, coming from when I used to work in gyms, it was very competitive. It was very we're the best, we're the best, all that sort of stuff. But in the suicide prevention space, everybody's working together. Everybody's working together for one goal, and you know that is to prevent suicide. So we're in a really lucky space in the prevention space, where everybody wants to work at the same pace. Everyone wants to go absolutely as hard as we possibly can to fix this. So yeah, it's, I suppose, up to us to continue that work.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. It's noble goals, very, very noble goals. Yet again, just because there are comparisons to be made, I'm I'm quite the same. At the moment I am working on trying to get my second children's book published, because I believe that those conversations surrounding men's mental health start at a young age. And I'm going even younger with a children's book titled baby boy, it's okay to cry. Because because I I really think that meaningful change cannot, it can happen on a surface level with our generation I'm guessing you're around the same age as me early 30s, mid 30s, maybe late 20s, not sure there can be some change surrounding out the way we think and the way we frame things and the relationship that we already have with mental health.

There are a lot of men out there that are too stern in their way of thinking with. You know, men don't talk about their emotions. Man up, don't be a pussy, all of that rhetoric. So, yeah, I went and wrote a book about it. So future generations can, you know, can hopefully read my book at a young age and understand. You know, baby boy, it's okay to cry. There's nothing wrong with crying If you fall over, cry If you hurt yourself, cry If you feel sad fucking cry Cause like feeling is healing. That's, that's my big thing and that's, you know, something that I'm hoping I can pass on to future generations to create that meaningful change and emotional intelligence and just willingness to communicate what you're feeling and how you're feeling.

Yeah, beautiful mate, that they can actually have an impact on this, on mental health and on the people's future of mental health and suicide prevention. Whether it be writing a book or whether it be simply having a conversation with your mates, it's such little things that we can all do to actually make that impact. And if we're all doing just that one little thing again, whether it be writing a book, doing a podcast or talking to your mates, those little things all add up, you know 100 people working is much more better than you know two people working. So if we can get everyone understanding that they can have an impact on this conversation and on suicide prevention and on, you know, just that idea that, yeah, boys can cry and changing that stigma, everybody has an impact on that. So getting that conversation out there as well.

We do an ambassador program with the Shaka Project and one of the big rules with the ambassador program is that I don't care if you've got a million followers or five followers, you're an ambassador and you can be one of our ambassadors.

And the idea behind that is that we see in this social media world these days is this, you know, quote-unquote influencer I hate that term, I think it's ridiculous. I think an influencer, someone with influence, is someone that, literally what I said before takes out their AirPods and has a chat to the Uber driver on the way to the airport or wherever they're going, or talks to their friend about what they're concerned about. That's an influencer. An influencer isn't someone that's got 5 million followers and hosts their perfect day every day. That's not putting influence on people's lives. Influence is something that we all can do in a very, very minuscule sort of impact way as well. So having that idea that everyone can make an impact wherever they are, whoever they are, no matter how many followers they've got all these different things is something really, really powerful that we can all do to create that change and adapt the conversation as well.

So how can people get involved, how can people become ambassadors, how can people donate or anything like that?

Yeah, just jump on the Instagram, the shaka project. That's probably where you you'll find everything. So all their social media there and t-shirts, all this, all the merchandise, all that sort of stuff I'll try and post three or four times every day just to you know, keep everyone, I suppose, getting that that impactful content, giving back as much as possible you can. So jump on there, share it with your friends, share it with your family members. But I think the biggest thing that everyone can do to help this, this cause, is just to talk to their mates, check in with their mates. You know, if you're driving right now or you're going for a walk, you know after the podcast, give them a call and just check in. That's, that's the biggest thing. I don't care if we sell one t-shirt for the next five months. If we can start 100 conversations just by people messaging their mates, then that's much better than selling a couple t-shirts and and getting some some donations.

So that's um, yeah, one thing I'll definitely ask for sure, awesome if you don't mind me asking, just because I know a lot of people like full visibility when it comes to charities, the the profits made from from the sale of t-shirts does. Uh, where does that go?

so well because we are a non-for-profit. The, the t-shirts, the sales from the t-shirts goes back into the non-for-profits as two entities, but most of our donations and stuff um are through crowdfunding. So, for example, we did the uh run for our mates just a couple of months ago and that essentially helped us go to. Well it's still. It's still working. We're still doing it. Present free workshops at schools, at sporting clubs, at, you know, work sites, community organizations, all these different places that you know can't get the funding for different workshops and events, so we'll go over to schools. We've done about five schools in the last couple of weeks. Actually it's been pretty busy work. A couple of weeks for schools probably go there, do some workshops with the year 7 students through the year 12, and that's essentially where a lot of their funding goes is to is to be able to get there and to to do all these things for free for the schools and for the students beautiful, perfect, awesome.

Well, I reckon that will wrap us up. Thank you again for joining me and have an amazing time in Bangkok, learning from the world's leaders in psychology and psychiatry and mental health. It's super exciting. I'm going to be picking your brain over the next week trying to get some information for myself as well no, thank you, mate, appreciate it always, always happy to share no worries now, everyone, make sure you go follow the shaka project on instagram, check out their website, buy their merch.

It's an absolutely incredible cause and, sean you, you really should be proud of yourself, mate. You are making change and I'm proud of you, and you know we're friends now, whether you like it or not. I'm going to go buy some merch as soon as we're done.

Thank you, mate. I really appreciate it. Thank you.

To make it so my life's a better place. If there's one thing I see, then your only thing is me Just knowing that I'm trying to make a change. Can I put it all on me Responsibilities, and all the other nonsense coming by repeating it? There's one thing I know possibilities and all the other nonsense coming by repeatedly. There's one thing I know it's knowing to let go. Just knowing that I'm trying to make a change doesn't seem too much just to ask for love, because there's many things that I do over and I've got a lot, but I won't give up On those many things that I do over.