A Mothers worry | Societal Pressures & Postpartum Depression in New Dads

We would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of this land. We pay our respects to the Elders past, present and emerging, for they hold the memories, the traditions and the culture of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people across the nation.

Warning this podcast contains explicit language and discusses sensitive topics related to mental health childhood trauma, birth trauma, abuse, miscarriage and suicide. Listener discretion is advised. If you find these subjects distressing or triggering, we recommend taking caution and considering whether to proceed with listening. If you or someone you know is struggling, please reach out to a mental health professional or a trusted individual for support. Your wellbeing is our priority. Hello and welcome to another episode of the Touched Out podcast. Today we reconnect with Sam from Wollongong and discuss her journey through the ups and downs of new parenthood. Sam shares her partner's struggle with postpartum depression and the inadequate support that left them both feeling isolated and ashamed. We tackle the broader societal challenges men face when opening up about their mental health, especially the pressures that push men to share their feelings, only to be met with shame. Our discussion points out the inadequacies of community support systems for men and questions the medical profession's sincerity in addressing no life's been tough.

So take a breath from everything right here and now. Take some time, it's alright, you'll be fine After touch of a cat. Take all night, you'll be fine, it's alright After touch of a cat.

Okay, so today we have Sam from Wollongong. I was lucky enough to already have a conversation with Sam way back at the beginning of the podcast, when I was still a little freshie to the podcasting world Super fresh. Yeah, I think you were like episode four. Unfortunately, the recording didn't save, so we lost an entire conversation, but we're back for round two and we'll get it going again.

So thank you yet again for joining me no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's actually really funny because life has changed so much since that conversation of where I was at last time. So when we were talking last time, you know I was in the depths of I think she was 10 weeks old and my partner was in a deep, deep hole of postpartum depression in men about because I thought it was valid, considering the absolute hell that he had gone through with, you know, community health, you know, trying to find help, various different outlets. It just didn't work. And while my sentiment still sticks of newborn life sucks, I think I think it's almost more important to talk about the men's mental health, especially as a mother who I fully expected to get postpartum depression.

I am at higher risk for it. I have depression and anxiety, but coming from when she was 10 weeks old to she's six months, in four days or something, three days, and how much and I don't know if I can reiterate this more is how much time really has helped him. And hopefully this could speak to a mother who's going through the same thing as me, or a man who's listening who you know may not be willing to, you know, kind of recognize that that's what's going on or is, you know, has no idea this is going to end at all. That's not to say that he doesn't have his bad days, but when we were, you know, at 10 weeks, and we were talking, you know there was a lot of tears, a lot of tears. There was so many fights, the worst fights we've ever had in our life, in our relationship. You know, we're seven and a half years now and we've actually just come back from a trip from germany.

But he actually proposed congratulations thank you, thank you, yeah, yeah, so that that's. That's how different it it was. So he's gone from being in the depths of an extreme self-hatred and to the point, you know, he told me he regretted getting me pregnant. He regretted everything about this and essentially his pride and his, you know, his determination of sticking things out was the only thing keeping him around. But if he had been given an opportunity to leave, he would have.

Yeah. So just to put it into perspective, I reckon our first conversation would have been around about the start to mid-March, so April, may, june, july, so four months ago. We're looking at so in four months. I'm just trying to go back that far in my mind and remember some of the points that we did discuss At the time. Your now fiance it was seeking support.

Yes.

And not getting it. He was getting kind of railroaded at every turn, yeah, and there was a lot of kind of accusations maybe being thrown at him by professionals that were like are you going to hurt your child or are you actively hurting your child?

Yes, there was a lot of shaming him for going through what he was going through. You know a lot of mothers that go through postpartum depression. They get all the help in the world. You know there's a lot of help. There is still a stigma of shame like, how can you feel like this about your child? There was an extreme reaction from professionals of that he was. You know he was going to be one of those murder suicides. You know of the whole family. You know of the whole family and the fact of the matter is is that he just needed time and he needed a better support. You know, and that you know I was going through, you know, the fourth trimester.

I was going through my body healing itself from burst. I was going through mattress sense and things like that, and I I had a newborn and that was my priority at the end of the day. I was at one point scared that he would hurt her, but only if he was holding her. He wouldn't just go out of his way, you know, to actually hurt her. So that's something that I'm still trying to. I've got my own sort of post-traumatic kind of stuff that I'm dealing with, you know, with his actions. So it's a lot of. I still get anxious, you know, when he holds her, but it's out of a different part of my brain.

It's almost like a conditioned reaction. Is it Because of the early life?

Yes, yeah, it was completely conditioned. So in the beginning we sought help from community health and they the site this, like the head psychiatric nurse lady psychiatrist was like do you see a demon in your child? What was your childhood like? And it's like that's not actioning, like you're going via a textbook now and you're not actually actioning. The situation that's happening at hand.

Yeah.

You know, and you know that made him feel even crazier. He genuinely was like I'm actually insane, like I'm crazy, and they kept saying, like let's schedule you for a hospital stay, like a 72 hour in the mental health ward. The mental health ward in Wollongong is not good. It's actually not good, and neither is community health Wollongong. They were not very helpful.

There was a lot of shame around him and like, oh, he's the father, he's supposed to step up, he's supposed to help the mum, blah, blah, blah, and it's like he's having a stress response reaction. That's what he's doing, that's that's, and he even recognizes it now he he's having a stress response reaction to the complete and utter change in our life that you know, people talk about it, but there's not enough education on it. There's also not enough education on men and them dealing with this. You know, women, we do, because it's growing inside of us. Our brain's already ticking at, you know, 10 million miles an hour for our future.

But for men it's sort of like they don't feel the kicks. You know when they start or they don't. You know they don't go through the hormonal changes. You know, in the same sense that we do, and so when it comes. Of course there's going to be a stress reaction. Of course it's going to be like you know, alarms going off in their head like, oh my God, I have this tiny human being that I have to now care for and provide for and everything else. So of course it's going to be some sort of thing. Some men take to it better than others on, you know it's like grieving.

You know everybody's got their different way of handling it um I, I just I get so, so angry at this. There's such a major push in society for men to open up and oh, share your feelings it's not. It's okay to not be okay and like all of these, you know really really cool and positive initiatives to bring men's mental health into the forefront and make positive changes in society, but there is still so many people that are hell-bent on spinning the same fucking narrative.

Yes.

You follow me on Instagram. I'm not sure if you've seen my experience recently.

Yes, I did.

I was pretty upset With the men's mental health campaign and what WIN TV did to my story. It took 10 minutes worth of footage and took one line, which is where I said I was scared I was going to hurt my child and span the narrative and made me out to be a potentially violent man that's what they did to my partner and then they fucking wonder why men are so hesitant to talk about their feelings.

It sucks, it's shit, and I felt so horrible and so, so, so deflated after that ran that I just I wanted to pack it all in, I wanted to stop the podcast, yeah, and I just I wanted to be like I don't want to be a part of this, this push and this drive to change society's views on men's mental health and oh 100, and I can.

I can totally understand why you feel like that, because you know, even like panda and things like that, they were not that helpful. They're like what? Like, if they're going to be brutally honest about what they are, they're really about women and motherhood and changes for them and their mental health and their, you know, postpartum depression in women it's really not there. For men it really isn't. And it's really kind of irritating because at the end of the day, you can have mothers, you can have aunts, you can have all the family to come around and help you out and clean up and blah, blah, blah.

But the support network that you have, that's your partner and your partner. You know, like I love that man. You know I remember even telling you when we first were having this chat. You know I loved him and I was there for him, regardless, because plenty of men stay. You know men have to not put up with, but men have to go through their, their partners go through postpartum depression. They feel helpless, you know, and so it would be hypocritical of me to be like, well, get out of my life, you're unsafe and everything else, like he was a man who needed support.

Yeah.

And, at the end of the day, like he's the man that I, you know, he's the person that I turn to when things go good in my life and things go bad in my life, and to see him in such a way that was, you know, just so defeated and so angry at the system. You know that is supposed to be. You know, supposedly help through crises which are actually making it worse and more angry and creating more issues in my life than just helping and doing what we asked. You know, like it is no surprise that men are hesitant towards mental health or even medical professions because they don't take them seriously. Oh, you're a man, suck it up. It is what it is. You know you're a father. Now Step up.

It seems like we're really at this kind of crossroad and it's a really defined kind of line in the sand when it comes to men's mental health issues and like pushing for that change. I feel like we're really close but we're not quite there.

It's not quite close enough.

And yeah, and look, I understand that your and your partner's experience with Panda wasn't great, but I will advocate for them a little bit and say that they are making a lot of moves and a lot of changes in the men's mental health space. I'm not sure if it's live as of yet, but they are planning on going live with a men's mental health texting service.

No, they've gone live with that. Yeah, they've gone live with that.

So things like that. There is a lot of initiative and a lot of push for men's mental health. The whole Wynn TV thing had nothing to do with Panda and I was in contact directly with them after it aired. I told them how I felt, how angry I was, how upset and how I felt betrayed and I was quite rude. I was quite rude with my emails and I was like you know, I want to know who signed off on this. I want to know who approved this edit. I want, like I was, like I demand satisfaction, basically.

I would be too, I would be too.

And they were just like. We are so sorry that this has happened. Unfortunately, we had no say in that final cut. That's the journalists. We've been in contact with Wynn TV and told them that they need to provide their journalists with more training when it comes to topics such as this that are sensitive. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Journalists will never change, that's just they have to create the story for the views, right.

It's a clickbait. They're the original clickbait creators. Yeah.

And when I asked Panda for the footage in its entirety so I could post it so at least the world around me knew what the real narrative was. They were more than happy to oblige and they were incredibly apologetic. And they offered me supports and offered me a lot of different kind of things to make sure that I was okay, so yeah, it sucks that you guys haven't had a stellar experience with them, but yeah, it would be a disservice for me to not advocate for them.

Of course, and look, everybody's going to have a different experience. I just find that a lot of the mental health thing, you know, it is a lot of time. It's almost a different form of grief, really, and because it's not really, it's not a permanent depression, it's a time depression.

You know, they do think that it lasts about two years within mothers and I assume that it lasts about two years within men. You know the push for medication. It doesn't always work because antidepressants, realistically, you know it just makes you not react. That's what it is. It's an inhibitor. You know that it works for people. It doesn't work for others and that's fine, like whatever works for you works for you. But you know, when we've told community health, you know he's just come off antidepressants. He doesn't want to go back onto it because he'll just become useless to me and in all the sense of this family that we now have. You know he needed medication that was quick, that would address the situation when he was having an episode.

No, that's right. I think I remember us talking about this last time and they kind of treated him like he was an addict. Yeah, he was just trying to get pills.

Yes, yes, you're like look, valium works. I gave him some of my leftover Valium some, you know, way back when and it works. It keeps insane and everything's hunky dory. But they were like no, but we're going to give you mitrazapine, which is really there for sleep, but it just helps people sleep. I don't know why people encourage mitrazapine. It's quite a heavy drug. They try to put them on valdoxin, another heavy antidepressant. I'm on a lot. I was on valdoxin and you know you can only take it at night and it makes you sleep all the way through. And you know he it wasn't like there was no hearing of what we were saying you know he had come off antidepressants. They don't he. It's not a man that you know it works for he. You know there's only so much talking that he can do and it wasn't helping. He needed something to treat the situation immediately, to defuse the bomb. That's what we needed.

I still find it so odd that some GPs are so willing to prescribe really, really hectic heavy-.

Antidepressants.

Any type of drug. Really really hectic, heavy. Any type of drug Like. Before I got my ADHD and autism diagnosis, the first psychiatrist I saw wanted to put me on a fucking what's that antipsychotic that is renowned for you like sleep eating half way?

through the night. I know the one you're talking about, though. I know the one you're talking about.

It is a really intense antipsychotic. Yeah, but like that's. When I told my wife, she was like Jesus Christ, you don't need that. No, and he wanted to put me on hemipsychotics. Yeah, and then I found a different psychiatrist and I was like I'm fairly certain I have ADHD and he was like okay, we'll fill out this questionnaire and do this and do that and do this. And then like two weeks later it's like yeah, man, you've definitely got ADHD. Have some fucking Vivanze.

Which is just the Aussie riddle, that's just the Aussie Adderall. That's all that is.

Ritalin or yeah, it's just amphetamines. It's pharmaceutical speed. Essentially, yeah, Not even essentially literally.

No, it's literally legal speed.

Yeah, but like what a sliding scale from a heavy antipsychotic to an upper.

Yes, you know.

Yeah, it's ridiculous. So I mean, there's a massive lesson. There is always get a second opinion and don't just trust the doctor if you feel like that's not right.

That was the thing with community health. So they were like no, we're not going to give you Valium because obviously you're junkies and asking for it. You know not that we've experimented and obviously it works and things like that, and that's what kept him sane. We're going to give you mitrazazapine, a drug that I've used before. Would never recommend it, but you know if it works for you or for you. And then you know when you know they would repeatedly come to the house unexpectedly and you know when we started saying, no, you can't come in, you know they would get well, why not like? Because they would just say can we come in and then go to walk into our house before we've? You know they would get well, why not like? Because they would just say can we come in and then go to walk into our house before we've, you know, said an answer and we'd be like no, actually you can't, you can stay right where you are. And they'd be like but why are?

you in danger because yes, yes, that was also the other thing they would call. They would call him on daily and then it became like every second day I'd be like you know how are you feeling? Blah, blah, blah, and he'd just be like done with them because they weren't helpful. They weren't helpful questions, nothing about them was helpful. And then they would call me. You know we're all at home, they know we're both on maternity leave, so we're both at home and they're like so it was just Mitchell and it was really quite patronizing and it was almost like degrading him down to a little boy, you know, with issues, no, like dubbing on him to his mum.

Yeah, pretty much Like someone just spoke into him. You know he didn't sound that healthy and rah, rah, rah. And I'd be like, yeah, because you guys are calling. And then I would rip them a new one. I'd be like because you're not listening to us, you know, and there was a lot of swearing on my end because I was like this fucking bullshit, like what the fuck are you doing? Are you just ticking off boxes or you're actually here to help? Because it doesn't feel like you're helping. And then you know they wouldn't actually hit that like they would, they wouldn't actually apologize, they would do that backhanded apology like well, we're sorry, you feel that way but, don't, don't tell me you're sorry, I feel that way.

Suck my dick, um so, and then they kept. They would tell me after every phone call. You know, if you have a safe place to go, you should probably leave him, jesus, you know, oh, they'd be like you need to call the police on him the moment. You start feeling unsafe and you need to get her and yourself away from, away from him at any cost. And I'm like you obviously have no idea what is going on and you've, you've created a scenario in your head and in your notes that he is some, you know, violent junkie, just a ticking time bomb yeah, and it's like this is a man who needed support, who needed a better support system and to not feel like he was crazy, which you've actually made it worse.

Literally getting kicked while he was already down. Yeah, it's really upsetting to me. It was salt in the wound.

That's what it was. Yeah, repeatedly.

That sucks, yeah. So that was all. That's all within the last six months.

Yes.

So, from then till now, what's changed? What's the same? What's the transformation? How has he gotten to where he is now?

So I did a sort of sneaky and went to my a sort of sneaky, and went to my like a GP not my GP but a GP and you know I sort of it wasn't a lie. I just elaborated on what the situation was, that my family were coming down, they were coming down, they just weren't coming down for as long as I said they were and I said, look, I love them, but they give me anxiety. I have a newborn. You know, can I get some Valium? I'm not trying to be a junkie, I just need to get through the next couple of months with them. You know it's a cultural thing, blah, blah, blah. They did come down. There are. You know I did need to use it myself, but I ended up getting a good supply of it. We still have most of it. That's how little he used it. He literally just needed time.

So I did things like and I spoke to, he got to speak to one of his friends who, his wife, went through postpartum depression and they he told me what he did with her to kind of help her, you know, connect a little bit. So there was a lot of bath time. So you know she's not doing much, she's not running around, she's not, you know, into the mud and the grass and everything else. But I just started to establish a daily, you know, seven o'clock six, 30 bath time, daddy time, and that was me and her and him. And you know, I would hold her because, not out of fear that he would just drown her in front of me, but it was too much for him to touch her, so I would get him to pour the water over her head or, you know, help, splash the water on her tummy and rub, you know, rub her legs down with the baby wash and things like that, and rub her legs down with the baby wash and things like that. Eventually I got him to he now after bath time. We do bath time together as usual, but now, because she's starting to sit up on her own, you know, there's splishy splash time, so she gets a splishy splash and we create a little bit of bubbles and things like that, and he watches her with glee, he really does. And straight after bath time he's the one that dries her off and he's the one that puts her in her PJs. I just lay it out and then he just goes with it, you know, rubs her down and turns her into the greased up death guy and, with moisturizer, puts a nappy a fresh nappy and her PJs on and then she's ready for me to feed her for the end of the night. He's gone from a man who any sound happy or just a noise out of her would literally enrage him, has got turned into. You know, he can handle her crying when I'm having a bad time. I'm having a bad night because I do notice I'm a little less tolerant of her when I'm on my cycle or coming into my cycle. You know, and I'm. You know it's 3.30 in the morning and she's been an absolute terror. He can step in and just pick her up, feed her and get her back to sleep. You know it might take an hour and a half, but he can step in.

And I had a really bad night, bad night just before we left for Germany, and I ended up smacking the wall because she just would not stop. She just would not stop and I was at my tether and it had been a week of literal hell. So I was like I'd been pushed to beyond my limit and I've been like just go to sleep, just go to sleep, and then I've just hit the wall at the cot. Not because I wanted to hit her, I just needed to let out frustration. And he's instantly up into the room, pulled me out and I was like what are you doing? And he's like this is like staring at a mirror, a really ugly mirror, and it doesn't feel very good and I need to remove you from the situation and I'm going to take over. And I was in tears, I was like sobbing, because I'm like how could I be like this with my child? Like she doesn't know what's going on, she's fresh to the world, yeah, yeah, she's four months old, she's going through the four months regression.

And he was able to step in. And then I tried to take over and he's like fuck off, just fuck off. Go have a tea, go to bed, whatever, I don't care, but I need you not to be near her. Yeah, because it is so reminiscent of how I felt and how I was. Yeah, and it didn't feel good for him and I think that sort of put things a little bit into perspective of him, like what it was like for me to deal with him. But that was all the time and you know, he's able to step in when I just can't Before. It would all be on me. You know, does he love the crying? No, does anybody like a baby crying? No, you know what I mean.

Not at all Sadists, like babies crying.

That's 100% right.

So cool to hear that it's like his protective instinct kicked in as a result of empathy. That is also a result of lived experience and true experience.

Yes.

That's transformative man. That's fucking cool. That shows immense growth and immense understanding and emotional intelligence.

Yes, go, go him yes, very much like I was. You know it took me a while to process it because I was upset with myself. I was upset, I was exhausted from the week. You know there was also that time of you know I was freaking out about going to germany, about the flight, how she would travel, because she didn't like being in cars. You know it was just, it was, it was a whole thing and I was getting more and more anxious. And I've got, you know, I've got my comfort show, for you know, when I'm anxious, so when I start putting it on Mitchell, like my partner knows immediately like oh, she's anxious you know, and she was a dream on the plane.

She slept most of the way. She had a little bit of jet lag in Germany, not as bad as in Australia, like coming back to Australia, but being over there it was like he was amazing. Like he was so amazing we'd be in the car. You know she had a couple tantrums and you know, because it was from where we were in germany, in the west of germany, it was like a sick it was. If it was just us, it would have been about a four and a half hour drive to the neuschwanstein castle, which is where he proposed. But you know, with her we had to take more stops changes, feeding, you know, get her out, let her stretch her legs, you know things like that. So it took about six and a half hours, which which is totally fine. She probably had two little tantras and he handled them fine. He was totally fine. He just needed time. This is a man that needed to adjust to this new life and he is a man that takes a little bit more time, not out of because he's stupid, he's incredibly smart, just because he just needs time to absorb and process what's going on. Yeah, and you know he was so good.

There were days where she, you know, because she's a FOMO kid, so she wants to do everything and anything and see all of the people, and he would just be like, go eat, let me take over. Or like we went specifically over for a family wedding and, you know, I got a change and things like that. I'm trying to help out and there's wine and everything and I'm trying to be a good mom and he's like it's all good, give it to me. I got it, it's all good. And I was able to get changed and have a glass of champagne and, you know, do my hair and makeup. And you know, do my hair and makeup. And you know there was a lot of love.

And in saying that in Germany we had like a village to help us out, you know, and you know his dad's partner, she was like let's go have a girly day in Bonn, which is about a half hour, 45 minute drive from where we were, and he was like, yeah, leave it with us. I would never have thought I could do that a million years ago. I mean, it was with him and his dad, but Mitchell did most of it. His dad had to sleep for most of it and I just had a girly day shopping and we had lunch and everything and I didn't even have to worry, like I sent a message once saying is everything all good? And he just went.

Yeah, thumbs up.

Yeah, I'm not even concerned. I'm not even concerned. And when we came home, you know he said, look, she had a bit of a fuss but she was fine. She's had, you know, a nap. We've had a lot of playtime, some tummy time. We tossed her in the baby jail Like it's all good. You know, and you know we were out for four or five hours and you know, never in a million years would I think that I could do that, you know, would I think that I could do that? You know, even if he had support to help him, I can now leave her with him. You know, if I need, if I just need to run errands or I just need a break, you know I can be like I'm going away, I'm going to Woolies, I'm gonna pop to Baby Bunting, which is like 20 minutes away or something, and I know she'll be fine. You know, is he? Is he 100%? No, he's not 100%.

No one is. No one is.

I have bad days and I didn't even have it. You know, there are times where I'm just like I am done being a mum.

You know, I don't want to be a parent right at the split second it sounds to me like he has been able to adapt to rolling with the punches, yes, uh. And it sounds to me like you guys exhausted all of the professional help and it got you nowhere. It was literally one step forward, 10 steps back, 100 steps back. Excuse me, because, let's be honest, having postpartum depression as a man for one it already sucks, because you can't make sense of something that you didn't know you could get. You can't make sense of it. It's something that you have to adapt to over time. It's going to take time for any man.

When it happened to me, it took time for me to realize and process and understand and figure it out. It was a puzzle. It was a puzzle that I had to put together and I didn't have the box, I didn't have the picture to look at. I didn't know what puzzle, what picture the puzzle was going to be once it was finished. But I got there in the end and it sounds like that's what happened. But every time you guys talked to a professional and they were like accusatory or belittling or dismissive. It's like knocking that fucking puzzle to pieces again and here to start fresh, because that would have ruined his confidence as a father. It would have ruined his confidence as a partner. It would have ruined his confidence as a primary carer, a support person for you, an advocate for you, an advocate for himself. And people fucking wonder why the suicide rate for men is so high.

It's so high and it's it's really disheartening because I am very like, I love men. I don't like I love men and I I think they give a great balance towards women and you know, it's it's really disheartening that women can be as open and whatever. And yeah, there are other stigmas that come with women and mental health. But specifically when it comes to parenting, you know that men are, you know, seen as like they're the provider, they're the ones that are support, like you know. I mean, when we look at the fifties and the sixties and the seventies, like men were literally there to have good times with their kids and never deal with the bullshit. And the women, you know, stayed at home and they cooked and they cleaned and they dealt with everything, you know, almost within silence. But you know, we're in such a different age now where you know men do want to be dads, they do want to do, you know, even the hard stuff. They do want to do it. Yeah.

You know the emergence of the stay at home father.

Yeah, and like I remember, you know, even asking my partner when we're on holidays, you know, do you still regret it? Do you still regret all of this? And he said no, not even close. You know, especially the way she's becoming really cool. You know her little personality is coming through. You know she's just developing more. It really cool, her little personality is coming through. She's just developing more. It's cool. We've just bought a high chair. We're just about to start her on solids and give her a little bit of baby led weaning and things like that. So it's really cool. And even he knows it's really cool sitting her light up. When he comes into the room after he's been at work all day, he said that's all freaking worth it. She's no longer a potato. She's a potato that smiles and there is give back now.

And I think that's also part of it. You can have those shared experiences and feel like an actual unit now, yeah, yeah, that's awesome.

He knows that when I'm done you know, like yesterday I hadn't had a shower. The previous day I had a shower the previous day. I felt feral. I was, you know there's a lot of vomit that I was getting a little over it. And you know he's come home from work and he's done a big hour, you know 12 hour day and he's like you know, you're okay, and I was like I'm just over it, like I haven't had a shower. You know I didn't have a shower yesterday. I just feel feral. Like I've been cooking all day as well and, you know, playing and everything.

And she was just resisting every frigging nap, no matter how much I wore out, you know, and she'd only do really short naps and I'm like honey, and that was really hard as well and I have the possum's approach when it comes to naps. But it's also like have a nap, mom needs a break. And you know he was like go have a shower. I got her and she like go have a shower. I got her and she was pretty feral as well and I'm like look, she's feral. I don't. You know, I don't know, because he can't always handle her when she's feral and that's fair enough. I don't want to handle them. Nobody wants to handle a baby when they're feral yeah, but resilience takes time oh, yeah, yeah there is a insane it's.

It's not a natural thing and he's like, oh, I got it, it's all. And he was just all loving. He took her, he played with her. You know he changed her. You know he's like, do you think she's hungry? And I was like, yeah, probably. And he's like, right, and he just made her a bottle and he was dancing around and playing with her and I had a long, nice, long hot shower and then he was like, you know, then I told him what was going on, what the, what the dealers like dinner and things like that. We were talking about work and it was all good.

And you know he has these, you know, other days where he just can't. You know, I mean I don't generally get that luxury, but there are times where I do and I, you know, I look at him and the way he is with her and it's just like. You know, I would never have imagined that. You know, when I first spoke to you, he now takes over for the weekend. Saturday mornings he does, and then I take it like he lets me have a bit of a sleep in. That sounds horrible saying, oh, he lets me have a sleep in. That's not meant to sound like that if people are listening. But on Sundays he takes over as well. He gets up, he lets me sleep in, he gets her, he changes her, he feeds her, he does a big play and lets me wake up whenever I want to wake up or whenever I do wake up, and that's also been really freeing for me as well, that I get asleep. Yes, it's on the weekends, but he's working all week and he does two 12-hour shift days.

You're at that point where you guys can support each other in day-to-day life and it's more of a cohesive unit.

Yes, we go shopping for food together. That I never thought that would happen. He carries her in the carrier on the front, so she loves it and she just hangs out in the front. She'll have a nap. You know we go food shopping. You know we get the prayer mats, so we can do a really nice big weekly shop and it's just really nice to do those Baby's getting grumpy.

Do those things together and that we can be a unit and, you know, actually support each other where it's a give and take on both ends Whereas before, makes me really really, really happy to hear that, and I'm really, really glad that you guys are in a better place and he is in a better place and it sounds like he went through the ringer, but he did the work himself and he has honestly, it's very exciting to be able to come to you and be like hey, yeah, that's some good news.

When your message saying let's set up another date and you were like I've got so much to tell you.

I was like, hey, that's some good news. When you messaged saying let's set up another date and you were like I've got so much to tell you, I was like, oh, this could go either way, so I'm glad it went the way it went, yeah yeah, it's awesome. Before we wrap up, is there anything you want to throw out to the world? I'll let you go soon because baby obviously is starting to get a little bit like mom. I bit like mom. I want attention, yeah.

Yeah, there is light at the end of the tunnel. Yeah, like this is a testament to what it is. And men really do need a little bit more time than women because obviously we have that nine month you know, you know cooking process before it all comes to fruition. There is light, you will come to it, whether it's five months down the track, six months a year down the track, but it's it's actively, you know going, you know trying to make, you know, even if it's just bath time, even if you just fill up the tub, even if you just sit there and give her a bottle or you just watch it play in baby jail or tummy time or what it's like, small steps are always going to make it better and it does get better. I will always say that newborn life sucks, but in saying that if you are struggling and the conventional ways have not worked, time will help. Time will totally help.

Time being open and talking it out with anyone that you feel trust with yeah. Anyone Talk it out.

Always talk it out, and if you feel like you don't have anyone I have said this multiple times on other episodes I'm here. Anyone listening feels like they're alone. I am here, my inbox is always open. Am here, my inbox is always open. And last time you and I spoke, I had um floated the idea of having your partner come on and have a chat to me and you said no fucking way in hell will that ever happen it's probably still in no way, and no way because he never wants to.

He doesn't want to relive it, but he might be more open to it at some point. I think it's something that like he is very ashamed of what has happened. I think that shame will carry with him for a while. Yeah.

You know that shame is a hard place to be, because that shame has such power.

Yes.

And the only way that you can take that power away from that shame is to talk about it. But it really is a double-edged sword.

It is.

It's a very brave thing to actually it really, it really is talk it out yeah, because I don't think he realized, because I know he had blackout moments from it. So it's funny because the other day we were we were doing the dogs meet together and we were giving up like his portions for the week, for the month and stuff like that, and he put on a song and it was a song that was played like through the first like three months, and I burst into tears. And he was like what's going on, like can you please change it? And he's like why? And I told him what happened, like why, and I said it because it reminds me of, you know, this song was playing at our worst, at at your worst, and I just couldn't handle it. And he was like it wasn't all bad. And I was just like, no, it was all bad, you know Time will heal those wounds further as well.

You'll look at those things in two years and you might even be able to have a little bit of a laugh about them. That's the weird way in which our minds can cope with the traumas.

Yeah. So I think he sort of blacked out how bad it really was. You know, I was sleeping on the couch, he was sleeping in our room. There were days when we just barely spoke to each other and it's like no, I know, it was all bad. You know I'm surprised we've lived through that.

Well, yet again, I'm stoked to hear that you guys have gotten through it. You're light at the end of the tunnel. You're now engaged. He's now you know has the confidence to you know to be a father and to be a provider and a future husband and all of those awesome things, and it's given you the opportunity to heal your own issues and things and worries and just heal from you know, giving birth oh yes.

You know it must have been an absolute nightmare for you guys to go through, but, yeah, super proud of you both. Well done. Thank you for coming on again. It's been awesome to catch up. It's awesome to see Bubba again. She's grown a little chunker.

She's so fucking big, literally off the scale for all of the centauri.

It's so weird. You know my youngest is one tomorrow. Oh, happy birthday, thank you. So when we spoke, you know she would have been. I don't even know, I'm shit at math like seven months.

Seven months, Seven eight.

Her birth both feels like yesterday and like 10 years ago. It's, it's fucking weird.

I can't believe she's one already, but I also can't believe that she's not older and she's not like getting her first job.

Hurry up, that's get out of our house. It would be awesome if she would hurry up and start sleeping through the night, cause you know she's a year old and she still doesn't do that.

Oh look, babies are going to baby, that's the attitude that I take yeah.

Awesome. Well, thanks so much, sam. I'll let you get on with your day and enjoy. Thanks, mate, bye-bye, bye-bye.

Wake up, it's another day. Try and find a way to make it so my life's a better place. If there's one thing I see, then your only thing is me Just knowing that I'm trying to make a change. Can I put it all on me, responsibilities, and all the other nonsense coming by repeating it? Thank you Doesn't seem too much Just to ask for love, cause there's many things that I'll do over, and I've got a lot, but I won't give up On those many things that I'll do over.