Welcome to Episode 31 of Touched Out! A Mental Health Podcast for Parents
Purchase Ben's Chart Topping Single "Listen Now" on Bandcamp.
50% of all sales donated to suicide prevention: BandCamp
Join us as we chat with Ben Drysdale, an award-winning singer-songwriter, who opens up about his experiences with ADHD, mental health, and the challenges of parenting. Ben shares his journey in the mental health and art space, and the inspiration behind his latest music.
Navigating Parenting with ADHD and Mental Health Challenges
Ben discusses the difficulties of regulating emotions while being a parent with ADHD. He addresses the pressure to conform to the ideals of gentle parenting and the guilt that can arise from not meeting those expectations.
The Power of Art in Mental Health Advocacy
We explore Ben's work in creating plays and theater-based workplace training to address social issues. He emphasizes the cathartic power of art and its role in promoting inclusivity and accessibility.
Authenticity in Music and Social Media
Ben shares the inspiration behind his new single "Listen Now" and talks about the importance of being authentic. He discusses how music and social media can connect people and foster understanding.
Breaking the Stigma Surrounding Mental Health
The conversation highlights the impact of trauma on individuals and the importance of breaking down mental health stigma. Ben encourages open dialogue and checking in on others, advocating for a supportive and understanding community.
Key Takeaways
- Parenting with ADHD and mental health challenges can be tough, and managing emotions is critical.
- Unrealistic parenting standards on social media can lead to feelings of guilt and inadequacy.
- Art, especially theater, can be a powerful medium for addressing social issues and offering emotional release.
- Authenticity is crucial in connecting with others through music and social media.
- Addressing trauma and breaking down mental health stigma are essential for creating a supportive community.
Join the Conversation
We invite you to listen to Ben's inspiring story and join the conversation on mental health and parenting. Share your thoughts and experiences on social media, and help us continue to break the stigma.
Follow Ben: Instagram | TikTok
Stream "Listen Now" on Spotify
Thanks for listening to Touched Out: A Mental Health and Parenting Support Podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode, please like, subscribe, share, and leave a rating and review. Your support helps others discover their new favorite parenting and mental health podcast.
Stay tuned for more insights, tips and personal stories on parenting and mental health.
Thanks again for listening and keep on keeping on!
Connect with Us:
Visit The Touched Out Website
Follow us on Instagram:
Follow us on TikTok
Ben: We would like to acknowledge the traditional
00:00:03
custodians of this land.
00:00:04
We pay our respects to the Elders past, present and
00:00:07
emerging, for they hold the memories, the traditions and the
00:00:10
culture of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people
00:00:14
across the nation.
00:00:18
Carter: Warning this podcast contains explicit language and
00:00:21
discusses sensitive topics related to mental health,
00:00:24
childhood trauma, birth trauma, abuse, miscarriage and suicide.
00:00:28
Listener discretion is advised.
00:00:30
If you find these subjects distressing or triggering, we
00:00:33
recommend taking caution and considering whether to proceed
00:00:36
with listening.
00:00:37
If you or someone you know is struggling, please reach out to
00:00:40
a mental health professional or a trusted individual for support
00:00:43
.
00:00:43
Your wellbeing is our priority.
00:00:45
Welcome to another episode of the Touched Out podcast.
00:00:49
Today we talk to Ben Drysdale, an award-winning
00:00:52
singer-songwriter who shares his journey as a parent and his
00:00:55
experience with ADHD and mental health.
00:00:57
Ben discusses the challenges of regulating emotions while being
00:01:00
responsible for a child and the pressure to conform to the
00:01:03
ideals of gentle parenting.
00:01:05
Ben also talks about his work in the mental health and art
00:01:08
space, including creating plays and theatre-based workplace
00:01:11
training to address social issues and provide catharsis.
00:01:14
Ben discusses his journey as a musician and content creator, as
00:01:18
well as the inspiration behind his new single Listen Now listen
00:01:22
now, it's alright, you'll be fine.
00:01:26
Speaker 3: after the Touchdown Podcast.
00:01:28
Take all night, you'll be fine, it's alright.
00:01:57
The Touchdown Podcast.
00:02:01
Carter: Hey, so today we have a very special guest.
00:02:04
We have Ben very special guest.
00:02:06
We have Ben Drysdale.
00:02:07
He's an award-winning singer-songwriter from Canberra.
00:02:11
His new single, listen Now debuted at number two on the
00:02:12
100% independent single charts and number nine on the
00:02:16
independent label charts.
00:02:18
Welcome, ben.
00:02:19
Thank you so much for joining me today.
00:02:21
Ben: No worries, man, it's nice to finally meet you face to face
00:02:24
instead of just tick tocking back and forth.
00:02:27
Carter: Yeah, yeah, definitely yeah.
00:02:28
We've been following each other for a hot minute now, so I
00:02:31
really really enjoyed seeing the journey from when I started
00:02:35
following you to now with your new single, which I'm absolutely
00:02:39
in love with.
00:02:40
I think it's such just a beautiful, beautiful song.
00:02:44
Thanks so much, man.
00:02:45
Thank you, You're more than welcome.
00:02:46
So why don't we start off by you telling us a little bit
00:02:49
about your family and a little bit about your history?
00:02:52
Ben: So my family is currently the Nucleus family is currently
00:02:57
three, about to become four.
00:02:59
My wife and I have been together either 12 years or 12
00:03:04
and a half years, depending on which of us you ask as to when
00:03:08
the relationship started.
00:03:09
We got married in 2016 and, yeah, had our first boy in 2021.
00:03:16
My wife had kind of like was feeling a bit down about there
00:03:20
was all these things in her life that she wanted to achieve and
00:03:24
we were thinking about having a kid and she was like, right, so
00:03:26
she picked one and we decided to go on a trip around Australia
00:03:29
and she was like such a mad gun in terms of getting that all
00:03:33
organized.
00:03:34
We were sort of like, okay, well , if we come back with a road
00:03:38
baby, then that's all good, because we've done this trip,
00:03:41
we've got out there and, you know, experienced it all.
00:03:43
And we found out that we were pregnant in Exmouth, wa, which
00:03:48
sort of right to left across the country is about as far away as
00:03:52
you can be from Canberra, and like, even though it's sort of
00:03:55
like not exactly planned it, but we were no longer being careful
00:03:58
or anything, it still kind of freaked us out a little bit and
00:04:00
thought we thought we might get a bit through more of the trip
00:04:03
than we did and it was a bit of a journey, yeah, trying to deal
00:04:07
with all of those initial appointments and scans and stuff
00:04:11
when you're moving from town to town.
00:04:14
You know, every other day, every other week we we tried to get
00:04:18
one of those nipt is that what it called nipt, scan things
00:04:22
where they sort of test for certain abnormalities or
00:04:25
whatever, and you find out about the gender and it didn't work.
00:04:29
Something you pay $600 for or something and it didn't work.
00:04:32
And we got it done in Darwin and they're like oh, can you
00:04:34
come back?
00:04:35
We're in Alice Springs now.
00:04:37
We can't just turn around and come back.
00:04:39
Probably not.
00:04:40
So, yeah, some stuff like that was a bit of a journey.
00:04:44
Yeah, so we've got a two-and-a-half-year-old boy,
00:04:48
jovi Cove Drysdale, not named after Bon Jovi not that that
00:04:51
would be a bad thing and yeah, we've got another one dropping
00:04:57
in 26 days or something like that.
00:05:04
Carter: How are you feeling about that?
00:05:06
Ben: Oh look, I am that amazing combination of excited and
00:05:11
terrified.
00:05:12
The wee man is two and a half and he's living his best two and
00:05:17
a half year old life, so that comes with a number of
00:05:21
challenges.
00:05:21
And, yeah, I guess the other side of the story that's
00:05:25
relevant to this podcast and all it discusses is that about
00:05:30
about nine, nine months into having had jovi, I was starting
00:05:37
to really not cope.
00:05:39
There's like lots of high pressure stuff happening with
00:05:42
work and, yeah, like I've always experienced, you know, bouts of
00:05:47
anxiety and depression over my life, but was always that kind
00:05:52
of like.
00:05:52
You know, I knew people who were clinically diagnosed with
00:05:55
one or the other and I'm like, well, I'm not that depressed or
00:05:58
I'm not that anxious, so this must just be the normal level of
00:06:02
anxious, which I think I've heard you talk about with other
00:06:05
people on the podcast before.
00:06:07
It's like, no, the normal level is none.
00:06:09
And yeah, I'd been on TikTok for a little while and, you know,
00:06:12
watched one or two ADHD videos and when you do that, they show
00:06:16
you more and more and more and I started wondering about it.
00:06:19
I actually thought about it about 10 years ago when a
00:06:21
colleague of mine was getting diagnosed while her 14 year old
00:06:25
son was getting diagnosed and we'd always seemed like people
00:06:29
who were.
00:06:29
We saw each other as very similar personalities and we
00:06:33
thought it was perhaps more than just the fact that we're both
00:06:35
aquarians.
00:06:36
And I just decided not to do anything about it at the time
00:06:39
because I was like I was trying to get off the some bad habits
00:06:42
that I've been on and was worried that I was just trying
00:06:45
to find a way to replace those habits and so, anyway, then,
00:06:49
yeah, towards the end of 2020 I'm losing track of years now I
00:06:52
mean towards the end of 2022.
00:06:54
Yeah, it all like I was having all these like really difficult
00:06:57
times at work and my colleague, who I run this theater company
00:07:02
with, had been talking to his both his current partner and his
00:07:06
ex-wife, who were both adult diagnosed ADHDers, and he was
00:07:11
talking about like how he was finding it really hard to manage
00:07:15
the way that I was not coping with things and they each kind
00:07:19
of like asked him a question here or there and they're like
00:07:22
he just he just sounds like he's got ADHD.
00:07:23
And he came and told me that and I was like right, between
00:07:26
that, all the tiktok stuff and the fact that I was thinking
00:07:29
about this 10 years ago.
00:07:30
It's probably time to make a move and and do something about
00:07:33
that.
00:07:34
So I finally I started that process towards the beginning of
00:07:38
last year and you know it's a bit of a process.
00:07:41
I finally got diagnosed, I think maybe about May, and then
00:07:44
finally got medicated in June, end of June, and so, yeah, the
00:07:50
whole.
00:07:51
I guess my point to that is that the whole learning how to be a
00:07:56
parent journey has also come alongside and, I'm quite sure,
00:08:02
instigated the shift from someone who was able to manage
00:08:09
and mask their neurodivergence throughout their life to like,
00:08:14
okay, now I can't do it anymore, like between the pressures of
00:08:18
parenting and the pressures of work, and it just bubbled over
00:08:23
the edge, and the more I talk to people about it, the more I
00:08:28
look into it, like I think that is a really big thing.
00:08:31
That I mean yourself, you, you got your diagnosis after.
00:08:36
Well, you managed to cram a couple in before you got yours,
00:08:39
didn't you?
00:08:40
Carter: yeah, it wasn't till back number three, where I was
00:08:43
well and truly just yeah, just spent well, one's, one's a
00:08:47
handful mate.
00:08:48
Ben: So for you to make it to three before you tipped over the
00:08:51
, tipped over the edge, then well done to you, yeah we're
00:08:55
really lucky with our first two.
00:08:57
Carter: They were great sleepers .
00:08:58
From six weeks old they both slept through like 12 hour
00:09:03
nights, seven till seven, yeah.
00:09:05
And so, like, apart from all of the other stuff, you know, I
00:09:10
was diagnosed with part of depression after the first two,
00:09:14
so I just kind of chalked it up to that.
00:09:15
But after baby three and the first two lulling us into a
00:09:19
false sense of security with their sleep routines, just
00:09:23
fucking did not want a bar of any of that.
00:09:25
All of a sudden, you know, I was having those same old
00:09:29
depression feelings, but like with a little extra spice, you
00:09:32
know, because I'll extra spice, no sleep, like just, yeah, I
00:09:38
just became such a shell and I was like, yeah, I didn't know
00:09:41
what was going on.
00:09:42
And then, much like you, yeah, I didn't know what was going on.
00:09:44
And then, much like you, yeah, the TikTok videos and you know
00:09:45
my son's diagnosis on top of that, and then my wife kind of
00:09:49
noticing a lot of the same markers in me led to my ADHD and
00:09:54
autism diagnosis as well.
00:09:55
Ben: Yeah, I'm wondering whether my ADHD might have a missing
00:10:02
you in it somewhere.
00:10:03
I reckon you might.
00:10:04
I might have a bit of the extra tism spice.
00:10:07
I've had a few people one person who's like ADHD as all
00:10:13
get out and they were sort of like, you know, just talking at
00:10:17
me 100 miles an hour and I was just reacting to them in this
00:10:21
like it was kind of triggering me.
00:10:23
Their ADHD was triggering my ADHD and they were like I think
00:10:26
you've got autism too and I'm like maybe.
00:10:28
And then I follow a couple of other people specifically
00:10:32
talking about autism on TikTok and yeah, I'm like looking at a
00:10:37
lot of their things too and going, hmm, okay.
00:10:42
I'm just trying to manage one thing at a time, but we'll see
00:10:44
how this next baby might kick in the for further investigation.
00:10:48
Carter: It might yeah, yeah, it's, it's.
00:10:49
I feel like if I didn't have three kids I probably would have
00:10:53
stopped at the at the adhd diagnosis.
00:10:56
But yeah, like once I got medicated, my journey itself was
00:10:59
once I became medicated for my.
00:11:01
ADHD and that leveled out the ADHD a little bit.
00:11:05
Autism traits just started popping up like no tomorrow.
00:11:10
Then my kind of unmasking was this inadvertent event in itself
00:11:16
where I just had a full-blown autistic meltdown.
00:11:19
I was like I don't know who the fuck I am, I don't know what I
00:11:23
like, I don't know anything about myself.
00:11:25
It was scary.
00:11:25
It was like I don't know who the fuck I am, I don't know what
00:11:25
I like, I don't know anything about myself.
00:11:26
And it was scary.
00:11:27
It was hard, man, and I'm trying to pick up those pieces.
00:11:31
And I still have days where I get angry and feel sad at not
00:11:39
having that diagnosis earlier in life and I have days where I
00:11:45
wish I could put, put pandora back in the box and go back to
00:11:48
before I was diagnosed and just live my little.
00:11:51
You know, ignorant ignorance is bliss.
00:11:54
Unmarked life.
00:11:56
Ben: You know, it is what it is yeah, and I mean like everybody,
00:12:00
like everybody has a different kind of reaction and response to
00:12:04
diagnosis.
00:12:05
But I think one thing that surprised me about it is the
00:12:12
different phases of it.
00:12:13
Like for me at first it was just this relief thing, this way
00:12:17
to understand myself in a way that I could relate to.
00:12:22
I could see this list of things that explained all the things I
00:12:27
didn't like about the way I have felt or the way I've acted
00:12:31
in the past, and it's just like that's where it all came from
00:12:35
and there was this huge sense of relief.
00:12:38
I've worked in the mental health sector through arts for a
00:12:42
really long time and so I guess, like some people get an instant
00:12:47
sense of shame, whereas I've sort of spent a lot of time
00:12:50
working with people to celebrate their journeys and, you know,
00:12:53
celebrate the learnings that they've had out of them.
00:12:55
So I didn't.
00:12:56
I never sort of had that kind of like diagnosis shame thing that
00:13:00
I know that some people get.
00:13:01
But like, once the kind of honeymoon period of the relief
00:13:04
wore off, and then there's there's like all this other
00:13:07
stuff to unpack.
00:13:08
That's like like oh, okay.
00:13:10
So you know, at first it's like it's exciting that you can sort
00:13:15
of look for ways to ask for accessibility for these things
00:13:18
that you've never known you needed all your life.
00:13:21
And but then there's all this other stuff where learning more
00:13:24
things about traits of ADHD like rejection, sensitive dysphoria
00:13:29
which is just like this horrible shit show inside your brain
00:13:33
where you are assuming the worst of like what people think about
00:13:39
you, or assuming how they feel about you, and holding them to
00:13:43
account for these things that you've invented in your head and
00:13:47
you're like, oh, this is some.
00:13:49
You know, I've spent my whole life feeling like those feelings
00:13:52
were justified and now I know they're not, or now I know that
00:13:56
this is some of my bullshit that I've got to work through
00:14:00
instead of being able to just lay the blame to everybody else.
00:14:04
Carter: Yeah, definitely.
00:14:04
Yeah, that rejection-sensitive dysphoria is a fucking mean
00:14:09
creature, isn't it why, you know , I kind of have spent my whole
00:14:12
life just like in self-deprecation mode, like just
00:14:16
not liking the person that I am .
00:14:19
So when something happens, that's a completely different
00:14:26
thing from the other person's perspective, but I will perceive
00:14:30
that as some form of rejection.
00:14:32
It just fuels that fire of self-hatred and it's like I just
00:14:37
proved to myself that I was right all along, that I am a
00:14:40
piece of it.
00:14:40
It's not worth being loved.
00:14:42
It sucks, it really sucks, and it's a really hard habit to
00:14:47
break yeah, yeah, 100%.
00:14:49
Ben: I feel like throughout my life I've lived both sides of
00:14:52
that spectrum of like self-deprecation counterbalanced
00:14:56
with overconfidence, that I just fluctuate between depending
00:15:00
on what sort of a day I'm having, depending on whether
00:15:03
it's a yeah, I don't know an ADHD excited day or a depressed
00:15:10
day or whatever.
00:15:11
So, yeah, I guess there's like I think that was something that
00:15:14
sort of came to the fore a little bit like in in my
00:15:18
relationship, where my wife is sort of just trying to like
00:15:21
manage, manage my roller coaster of being this like near
00:15:26
breakdown person and trying to support me to like, oh yeah,
00:15:29
I've got this diagnosis, great.
00:15:31
And then me being like, oh, learning all this stuff and
00:15:35
trying to process what I think I need or what I think the next
00:15:39
steps are, and then not realizing that I'm like
00:15:43
responding to her in some way that's just obviously just RSD
00:15:49
and like realizing okay, yeah there's still a lot of work to
00:15:54
do here.
00:15:55
Like, the medication is not a magic bullet.
00:15:59
It helps you filter and process those impulses sometimes, but
00:16:05
yeah, it's still that RSD demon can just like sneak in there at
00:16:09
any minute.
00:16:09
And yeah, I think, as well as all that sort of once the
00:16:14
honeymoon period's over, there's other stuff.
00:16:17
It's like the grief that I think you sort of touched on
00:16:20
before, the grief of a life that I could have had if I knew
00:16:27
about this earlier.
00:16:28
And I mean, like you know, I'm very proud of the things that
00:16:32
I've done In life.
00:16:34
I sometimes wish that my bank balance reflected the work I put
00:16:39
in better and you know, maybe it might have if I had yeah, if
00:16:45
I'd had the kind of focus I can have now.
00:16:49
Carter: Or just even like what I .
00:16:51
What I agree or what I get angry about is is if I was
00:16:55
diagnosed earlier like you, you know, before I was 10 or even as
00:16:59
a teenager, I would have had the ability to set in motion
00:17:03
like healthy coping mechanisms and honing skills that would be
00:17:10
suited for such a diagnosis, instead you being diagnosed with
00:17:16
something like that at 35, when I'm already pretty bloody set
00:17:20
in my ways.
00:17:21
As far as developing habits goes, it's hard able to be
00:17:27
different or like I will.
00:17:29
You know things like cleaning the house and keeping up with
00:17:40
chores, because we three places a fucking bombsite as daily
00:17:45
cleaning, you know, and I'll have a week where I am on top of
00:17:49
every house hasn't so spotless in so long, you know.
00:17:53
And then, just like that, it's gone and I am just back to like
00:17:58
couch melting and doom scrolling and not doing anything, while I
00:18:01
sit there and shame myself for it.
00:18:04
And I'm having one of those days today Like I had so many plans
00:18:07
for today, but like yesterday and today, man, yesterday I woke
00:18:11
up and I was like I don't want to do this fucking podcast
00:18:13
anymore.
00:18:13
I'm fucking sick of it.
00:18:14
I'm sick of like, who's's this for?
00:18:16
Is it for me or is it for everyone else?
00:18:18
I like, I feel like I'm spending my life like putting my
00:18:22
time and effort into helping other people when I can't help
00:18:25
myself, and that makes me feel like shit.
00:18:28
Ben: So it's, it's hard man, it's hard work, yeah I've had
00:18:32
some of those feelings, you know , around this song as well, like
00:18:37
which you know.
00:18:38
I'm sure we'll get to that a bit later.
00:18:40
But, like you put all of this time and effort and blood and
00:18:43
sweat and tears in while there's while there's some great
00:18:46
responses, like you know, this new news of being on on these
00:18:50
charts and stuff it's it's hard like I guess I had envisaged
00:18:55
that, like within the first week I'd be like making some massive
00:18:58
donation to some charity, but while there's been like, yeah,
00:19:03
there's just this sort of.
00:19:04
I think a lot of people are kind of closed off and cautious
00:19:09
around open dialogue, around mental health stuff.
00:19:13
Still.
00:19:13
And I will firstly, like you know, I'll say to you I've said
00:19:17
it to you already but, like, after following you on TikTok
00:19:20
for a year and then only finally listening to your podcast a few
00:19:24
weeks ago, are you doing it?
00:19:26
You're doing it, for I know you're doing it for you, but
00:19:29
you're doing it for people like me who are sick of like they're
00:19:33
not being open dialogue about this hardship and there needs to
00:19:37
be more people doing it.
00:19:38
And I'm, like I was, I've been sort of trying to like get a
00:19:42
handle on the tiktok thing and, through that process, trying to
00:19:44
think more about, like, who I am and why I do what I do.
00:19:47
And you know, now huge parts of that are parenting, mental
00:19:51
health awareness, adhd and I was like, oh, maybe I'll start a
00:19:55
podcast about that.
00:19:56
And I listened to yours.
00:19:57
I like he's already done it, but you know, maybe we all need,
00:20:01
maybe there needs to be a hundred podcasts about this,
00:20:05
because you know, like I get so much out of listening to this
00:20:08
podcast and I'm absolutely pumped that you feel like I'm a
00:20:12
worthy candidate to talk to on it.
00:20:14
So thanks for having me and thanks for doing what you do,
00:20:16
man.
00:20:24
Carter: No, I appreciate that so much I really do, and it's not
00:20:25
a matter of worthiness or anything like that.
00:20:26
The whole point of this podcast was real, real voices, real
00:20:28
stories.
00:20:28
So it doesn't matter who the fuck you are, it doesn't matter
00:20:30
that you're a musician that's currently in in the charts.
00:20:33
You know, you're a parent, you've, you've got a story to
00:20:36
tell.
00:20:36
You can be on the podcast, you know.
00:20:39
So the messages that I get, like you know, I always wanted
00:20:42
to go on a podcast and you know I've got like this cool story to
00:20:46
tell.
00:20:46
But like you wouldn't want to have me on, I'm like, why
00:20:49
wouldn't I want to have you on?
00:20:51
I'm a nobody too, and we can just be nobodies together and
00:20:56
then all nobodies love it can look into it and be like, hey,
00:21:00
that really helps me feel less alone and it's those kind of
00:21:03
little reminders that really reinforces the reason that I am
00:21:07
doing it.
00:21:07
Yeah, there are just some days where I'm like, fuck, I wish I
00:21:10
could help myself the way that other people tell me that I help
00:21:13
them with this podcast and that's it.
00:21:16
Ben: Hey, like you know, I've, I've, I've done work in music
00:21:22
and theater and visual art stuff around mental health for ages
00:21:26
and I can I can give great advice to people who are
00:21:30
struggling.
00:21:30
But it's much harder to take that advice yourself.
00:21:33
Or, you know, try and quell the voices in the way that you try
00:21:38
and get other people to do it, when, when you're inside your
00:21:41
own freaking head yeah, definitely.
00:21:44
Carter: So we'll excuse me.
00:21:45
We'll move past our little pity party.
00:21:48
I want to talk a little bit about the changes that you you
00:21:52
felt were challenging when transitioning from just a
00:21:56
partner slash husband traveling around Australia to parenthood.
00:21:59
So you did put down in your form that you wanted to discuss
00:22:03
the challenges in regulating emotions when responsible for a
00:22:06
tiny human.
00:22:07
Ben: Yeah, I mean, like many ADHDers, when I'm not doing well
00:22:13
, I can be very quick to fire.
00:22:16
You know, quick, quick to fire, I'm not.
00:22:19
I feel like I've got the wrong metaphor there, but you know,
00:22:21
it's the.
00:22:22
The stress and frustration can just rise like that out of
00:22:30
nowhere to things that other people can just handle very
00:22:34
easily.
00:22:35
And obviously, when you're responsible for the physical and
00:22:40
emotional safety of a tiny human being who has no emotional
00:22:43
regulation themselves, I don't, I don't even really know what I
00:22:47
have to say about this, other than it's hard and it's
00:22:49
challenging.
00:22:50
And I, you know, I've heard you talk about the gentle parenting,
00:22:54
talk slash gram that you know, where everybody's just showing
00:23:00
how easy it is to, you know, calmly whisper your child out of
00:23:09
a screaming, raging tantrum, because you whisper in their ear
00:23:11
that they're loved and supported.
00:23:12
And it's like, well, yeah, try that it didn't work.
00:23:15
And now I don't feel loved and supported.
00:23:17
And you know how am I supposed to manage this?
00:23:21
And then the shame comes and the guilt comes Like, oh well,
00:23:26
if they can all do it, why can't I do it in this cool, calm,
00:23:29
collected way?
00:23:30
And one thing I love about this podcast is that you know, you
00:23:34
normalize the fact that it's not all freaking roses and it's not
00:23:39
all easy and it's hard for anyone.
00:23:42
It's especially hard for people who have their own
00:23:46
neurodivergence, mental health challenges, especially if
00:23:49
they're sort of only recently diagnosed and trying to figure
00:23:53
out where they sit in it all as well.
00:23:56
Carter: Yeah, definitely figure out where they sit in it all as
00:23:57
well.
00:23:57
yeah, definitely the thing with, with, with the gentle parenting
00:23:59
talk and and all of the glitzy, filtered, glamorous curated
00:24:05
families is that it's just, it's just not fucking real and,
00:24:09
while beautiful to look at and it's, it's, it's essentially
00:24:13
parent shame porn.
00:24:14
It's it's like look at how well we are doing and we're able to
00:24:20
monetize this act, and it's not that the principles monetize
00:24:26
this act is because you're like you're viewing this and we're
00:24:30
feeding off your shame and it's just really kind of murky and
00:24:34
yucky, I think.
00:24:37
Ben: And it's not like the underlying principles of it bad.
00:24:41
Like you know, I want to teach my son sensitivity and validate
00:24:49
his feelings and do all of that stuff.
00:24:53
It's just wrapped in this like this slick, shiny package that
00:24:58
implies that you're not allowed to be human and you're not
00:25:00
allowed to have feelings, and you're not allowed to have
00:25:03
feelings, Only their feelings are allowed to exist, and I just
00:25:09
I don't think it's problematic and I think that you know well.
00:25:13
To counterbalance that, there's some really hilarious people
00:25:17
out there just putting up comedic videos about what a shit
00:25:21
show it is to be a parent as well, and they make me feel
00:25:24
better, you know.
00:25:26
Carter: And that's the most important thing is that we're
00:25:29
just seeing snapshots, fucking lives that they choose to record
00:25:32
and upload.
00:25:33
But everything in life is about balance.
00:25:36
But everything in life is about balance.
00:25:38
So, whilst our kids are definitely in need of that
00:25:43
gentle nature and that nurturing and emotional availability,
00:25:45
it's also equally important, if not more important, to have your
00:25:50
children see you fall down both physically and emotionally, get
00:25:54
up, dust yourself off and apologise for your fuck-ups,
00:25:56
because that's how they learn how to do the same.
00:25:59
They're sponges, you know, and it's also incredibly important
00:26:03
for children to kind of experience that rupture and
00:26:08
repair process with parenting.
00:26:10
You know they have to understand that sometimes
00:26:13
they're going to do things that I do not like or my wife does
00:26:16
not like, or other people do not like, and they need to
00:26:20
understand that their actions sometimes will have consequences
00:26:25
and they're not going to like it, but that does not diminish
00:26:28
the love or the care that I have for them.
00:26:30
So I'd like to switch over now to maybe a little bit of history
00:26:36
with your music career or your your work in in the mental
00:26:39
health and art space.
00:26:41
So how did that kind of come about?
00:26:44
How did that start?
00:26:45
And then a bit more about your new single yeah, sure.
00:26:50
Ben: So yeah, I've sort of always fluctuated between music
00:26:53
and theater.
00:26:54
I sort of did both in primary school and high school and then
00:27:00
in canberra we go to like a different school from year for
00:27:03
year, 11 and 12 that we call college, and so there I did a
00:27:08
bit of drama and then got a c because I was I sucked at
00:27:12
journaling and I still suck at journaling, like now I'm trying
00:27:15
to doing a bunch of these sort of mindset things where
00:27:18
everybody's like, oh, you gotta journal, like I hate journaling
00:27:21
anyway.
00:27:21
So I've got to see and I was like, well, stuff, you then I'll
00:27:24
go do music.
00:27:24
And I did music then and then finished there and I was like,
00:27:27
well, I don't really want to like my music interest is not to
00:27:30
go to the school of music and do jazz or classical.
00:27:33
So when I went to uni I did theater and went and ended up
00:27:37
going to canada to study for a little bit, because the uni here
00:27:42
was like the theater program was pretty much an english
00:27:45
program about plays, like it was very read plays and talk about
00:27:49
them and not much learn anything about doing them.
00:27:52
So I did that and then came back and I was just kind of I
00:27:56
was planning on just finishing my degree and move down to
00:27:58
Melbourne and in the first few years I graduated in 2005 and
00:28:05
had been back for about a year.
00:28:06
Then I just started getting into the local art scene in Canberra
00:28:11
and realised that this place that I'd grown up hating,
00:28:15
thinking it was boring because it wasn't Sydney or Melbourne,
00:28:18
it was actually an amazing city and being surrounded by bushland
00:28:23
and being able to get from one end to the other within half an
00:28:27
hour.
00:28:27
So yeah, I just sort of dived in and started a business
00:28:30
putting on music nights and theater shows and art
00:28:33
exhibitions and just trying to get like some acting gigs where
00:28:37
I could.
00:28:38
And yeah, this friend of mine who I met through that scene was
00:28:42
part of a project that got some funding from through the Mental
00:28:45
Health Foundation to create some plays where interviews were
00:28:50
done with people with lived experience of mental health
00:28:54
challenges and or stories were gathered from them and then
00:28:59
these stories and were presented by what they deemed local
00:29:04
celebrities at the time, which I just thought was a bit weird.
00:29:07
But you know, so you'd have this like weather person reading
00:29:11
these stories or someone from I think there was a couple of
00:29:14
politicians and stuff and I got on board as part of, yeah, a
00:29:18
group of volunteer people that were sort of just doing some
00:29:21
physical theatre stuff and a few little scenes in between all of
00:29:25
those, and that was kind of like the first time I got a
00:29:31
sense of how art can be used to address social issues and to
00:29:40
provide catharsis for those who've had difficult times
00:29:44
through storytelling and through their stories being heard and
00:29:49
them feeling heard, and I ended up sort of interacting.
00:29:54
I got a side gig running an art gallery because I had put on
00:29:58
some art exhibitions and that was for a community center and
00:30:01
ended up, you know, we do mental health month exhibitions and
00:30:06
international day of disability exhibitions, and between these
00:30:11
plays and that world, um yeah, I just kind of I mean, in some
00:30:15
ways it was kind of selfish in that applied art is one of the
00:30:21
only ways to make money from.
00:30:22
Art is like using your art through a community service in
00:30:27
some way is like a place where you can get a paycheck.
00:30:29
So there was a bit of that, but it was a really impactful thing
00:30:32
to just yeah, to see, to get a sense of what art can do for
00:30:39
anybody who's been marginalised in some way or another.
00:30:41
And then the guy who got me to be part of that initial theatre
00:30:45
show ended up having another project a few years later.
00:30:49
It resulted in the beginning of this theatre company and so we
00:30:53
were creating some theatre-based workplace training around
00:30:57
accessibility and inclusion in workplaces for people with
00:31:00
disability or mental health challenges, using this thing
00:31:04
called Forum Theatre, where you'll use real stories of
00:31:08
people with lived experience of an issue and create like a 10 to
00:31:12
15-minute play where all the things that could go wrong go
00:31:16
wrong and people behave badly, and then you perform the play a
00:31:21
second time and when the audience sees something that
00:31:25
they think should or could be done differently, they yell stop
00:31:28
, come up and replace one of the actors and try and improvise a
00:31:31
better outcome.
00:31:31
And yeah, it was this thing that was funded funded by a
00:31:36
small grant and a lot of us were working volunteer on it, and
00:31:40
but we were kind of like we've got something really cool here
00:31:43
and so a small group of us kind of continued on and ended up
00:31:47
becoming an incorporated association and just I mean, we
00:31:50
sort of departed from that particular thing that we created
00:31:54
and just started doing all sorts of different things we've
00:31:57
we put on, put on plays where we interviewed people with lived
00:32:01
experience of trauma about what it was like to live with trauma
00:32:04
and then had, like an actor and a dancer and a musician come up
00:32:08
with creative responses to those interviews and then present
00:32:13
that as like a creative development.
00:32:15
With the Department of Defence, with soldiers how do they phrase
00:32:19
it?
00:32:19
Currently serving people who have physical or psychological
00:32:26
injury was the way they phrased the cohort for that.
00:32:27
And we, yeah, we was contracted to work on a great program they
00:32:32
have where people could come to Canberra and spend four weeks
00:32:35
doing full-time arts and yeah, that was an amazing experience
00:32:40
and just yeah, seeing I'd had little to no interaction with
00:32:44
anybody military until that point, and I think you sort of
00:32:47
get a.
00:32:47
You get a when you're an artsy leftist who doesn't like the
00:32:52
fact that there's wars.
00:32:54
You get this sort of sense of what military people are like,
00:32:58
and it was so.
00:32:59
You just broke all of that down , met so many amazing humans
00:33:03
doing that program and saw really huge changes from when
00:33:09
they walked in at the beginning of that four weeks to when they
00:33:12
walked out and felt really proud to have been part of that and
00:33:16
yeah, so how much should I blather about this?
00:33:20
So, yeah, now we do all sorts of different projects and we've
00:33:25
just celebrated 10 years of being a company.
00:33:29
Carter: You're still in that role as well.
00:33:33
Ben: Yeah, so I'm sort of a co-CEO and we've had anywhere
00:33:38
from two to three CEOs at any one time over the years,
00:33:43
depending on what's happening at the time.
00:33:45
Both of us we've had some really big projects that have
00:33:50
allowed us to expand the team, which has been really good
00:33:52
because I think, like the arts is underfunded, the community
00:33:55
sector is underfunded and when you're doing both, you're doubly
00:33:58
underfunded and like burnout is a real risk.
00:34:02
And, yeah, we've sort of got some big projects at the moment
00:34:06
and it's allowed us to expand the team and allowed me to kind
00:34:09
of like take a little bit of a step back so I can focus more on
00:34:13
the music.
00:34:13
Like I was working four days a week and then when my wife went
00:34:20
back to work after having Joby, for a long time she was on four
00:34:24
days a week and then she decided to they wanted her to go to
00:34:29
five days a week and so when she did that, I stepped down to
00:34:32
more like three days a week so I could, yeah, work more on the
00:34:34
music side of things, because ultimately, that's more my
00:34:38
passion project and what I've sort of throughout the last year
00:34:43
and this process of trying to kind of market myself on the
00:34:50
socials, but to try and do that in a way that's like you know.
00:34:53
So you're not just trying to.
00:34:55
People are only interested in your music if they're interested
00:34:57
in you and your music is a reflection of you, and so it's
00:35:01
not just like people.
00:35:03
And people are sick of being sold to as well.
00:35:06
So, like they don't want the, here's my new single, go and
00:35:11
listen to it.
00:35:12
They want.
00:35:13
Why did you write this single?
00:35:14
Why do you write music in the first place?
00:35:17
Why do you?
00:35:24
And it's been a big process of, while trying to figure out how
00:35:26
to be a parent and how to manage adhd, there's just all of this
00:35:28
um whirlwind of also just trying to figure out who the hell am I
00:35:31
, why, why do I do what I do?
00:35:34
Why have I ever done what I've ever done?
00:35:36
And it's a really, and doing it in this way.
00:35:40
Which I love about TikTok is it gives me this like great way to
00:35:46
play and be creative and merge my, my sort of music and theater
00:35:51
backgrounds into one thing.
00:35:53
One thing, and you know, talk about mental health in silly and
00:36:00
funny ways to kind of disarm people's walls and barriers
00:36:03
around talking about it and then talking about funny, ridiculous
00:36:08
things in serious ways.
00:36:12
Carter: Just natural promotion really.
00:36:15
Ben: Yeah, just trying to be authentic, you know, trying to
00:36:18
be authentic in the way I'm presenting to the world as I am
00:36:24
when I'm writing a song, because that's that's what it's about.
00:36:26
And I think, ironically, the the things that have gone most
00:36:31
viral are not the things that I've done, either about my adhd
00:36:35
or about my music in any.
00:36:37
I was like spotting this trend of people doing the like you
00:36:41
can't summon a generation with one song thing and I was like,
00:36:44
well, I'm going to take that to the next level and make it about
00:36:46
summoning multiple generations with one song and use ACDC
00:36:51
Thunderstruck.
00:36:51
And it just popped off on both TikTok and Facebook just
00:36:54
hundreds and thousands of views.
00:36:56
And then I was like, oh, that's a bit fun.
00:36:57
And so I've been making a bit of a series.
00:37:04
I just posted my seventh one of those the other day and I was
00:37:06
thinking I've been doing this program and and there's a
00:37:08
mindset coach in there and it's like this program around like
00:37:11
content creation and stuff like that.
00:37:13
And you know, at the beginning they're like why, you know, why
00:37:16
do you, why do you do what you want to do and why do you do
00:37:20
what you do?
00:37:20
And I was sort of just like talking about that sort of sense
00:37:24
of like wanting people to not feel alone and people to feel
00:37:27
understood, because that's what music's done for me.
00:37:29
And they were like, yeah, that's great, everybody can say
00:37:33
that.
00:37:33
And like it sort of all clicked to me, the Mindset Coach guy
00:37:41
told me to watch a video by simon sinek about, about the why
00:37:44
, which I think it's a video about him talking about why
00:37:48
apple computers were, you know, so successful in the face of all
00:37:53
of their competition and, and I can't even remember exactly
00:37:56
what he said to trigger it.
00:37:58
But I ended up pausing the video and then just writing this
00:38:01
whole thing about the fact that I think that the world is
00:38:06
absolutely controlled by trauma and like whether you've got like
00:38:10
big t or little t trauma, everybody has this like an
00:38:13
experience or a series of experiences where the
00:38:17
expectations that they had of the world and the fact that they
00:38:23
would be safe in it and looked after by it is like shattered in
00:38:27
some way by what happened to them.
00:38:30
And you know, I've got the most vanilla middle class example of
00:38:37
when I found out the world was not a fair place.
00:38:39
It was playing connect for at a school holiday program and I
00:38:44
had one and the person I was playing against put one in so
00:38:49
that it looked like they won on top, and then they pulled the
00:38:52
thing out so that I couldn't prove that I'd won and like that
00:38:56
is just such a middle class way to.
00:38:58
You know, I didn't find out the world wasn't a fair place
00:39:00
because someone was bombing my city or something like that.
00:39:03
And look, I've got some much bigger trauma.
00:39:06
That happened later on.
00:39:07
But whatever you've got, you've got this.
00:39:10
Everybody's got some experience where the unfairness of the
00:39:14
world was a surprise to them and that has lasted with them in
00:39:18
some way and that when, like, I'm not saying that example was
00:39:22
traumatic to me.
00:39:22
Carter: But that's when you figured out yeah, it's what I
00:39:25
figured out.
00:39:26
Ben: But, like there there are a number of things that have you
00:39:28
know, have been traumatic in hindsight and that when you
00:39:33
experience trauma, you sort of you have a loss.
00:39:36
You have a loss of like, power and a sense of safety, and that
00:39:44
it sort of clicked to it.
00:39:45
So I sort of like was writing this stuff down and so that was
00:39:50
kind of my why.
00:39:51
And then I'm like, so how am I addressing these things?
00:39:55
And I sort of, yeah, came up with this, like trying to
00:39:59
restore innocence through nostalgia, like by, and I
00:40:04
thought about the why people are connecting with these, like
00:40:07
summoning multiple generation songs, and it's like it's either
00:40:10
this sense of nostalgia about before the world hurt you or
00:40:14
it's music that got you by while the world, you know, while you
00:40:18
were trying to process what the world hurt you.
00:40:20
And I think like, yeah, connecting to the inner child in
00:40:24
some way like is a really powerful thing and yeah, that's
00:40:29
essentially belger is when you really really break it down.
00:40:32
It's essentially just like positive core memories, before
00:40:35
you realize just how fucked this place yeah, yeah and I mean
00:40:41
there's, yeah, there's, there's sort of more to that whole thing
00:40:44
.
00:40:44
But I guess I I yeah wanted to reflect on that whole thing with
00:40:49
the content creation and playing around with all of these
00:40:53
different things and having these things that are not my
00:40:55
core reason for being there, being the things that pop off.
00:40:58
Carter: But I'm, I journey in tiktok and and social media is
00:41:03
very similar.
00:41:04
You know, I started the Instagram and TikTok page for
00:41:08
the podcast and I was just like planning on just posting like
00:41:12
this is a clip from a new episode coming out whenever blah
00:41:15
, blah, blah.
00:41:16
No one wanted a bar of it.
00:41:18
So then I started kind of doing little tiny bits and pieces of
00:41:23
just like letting my humor show through a little bit more,
00:41:25
instead of always being like doom and gloom and trauma,
00:41:27
trauma, trauma.
00:41:28
And then the first, my first viral, I guess viral video, just
00:41:34
like I think 200, 250 000 views or something like that was
00:41:39
about peter dutton saying that the reason for violence against
00:41:43
women in australia is because of violence for the violent video
00:41:46
games.
00:41:46
And it's just like, oh yeah, I saw that one, yeah, two and a
00:41:49
half minute rant of me just being like no, it's toxic
00:41:52
masculinity and blah, blah, blah .
00:41:53
And like I've I've been lucky enough to guest on another
00:41:56
podcast, um, and do a whole episode about toxic masculinity.
00:42:00
It's called round table mindset and essentially it's like it
00:42:04
was like a debate and it was really fun, but like yeah, that
00:42:08
popped off and all of a sudden I've, you know, I went from
00:42:11
three, four hundred followers to like twenty five hundred in the
00:42:15
space of a week, and yeah, that didn't even like that.
00:42:19
That was awesome at the same time.
00:42:21
But then I was also like, why can't my podcast be that popular
00:42:25
?
00:42:25
You know like, and I really had to step back and put into
00:42:30
perspective just how many people 250 people.
00:42:34
So now, like, whenever I post any video, and I see like 400,
00:42:40
500 views and that's it.
00:42:41
And I'm like, why can't it be a couple thousand?
00:42:42
I'm like, no, no, be a couple thousand.
00:42:43
I'm like no, no, picture how many people 400, 500 people
00:42:48
actually are like, picture them in an auditorium and just
00:42:51
fucking thankful because tiktok has really, really given me like
00:42:55
this skewed view of of what success is and it's.
00:43:00
Ben: It's algorithms are super weird too, like like if, if, if
00:43:05
it doesn't break through a certain barrier immediately, it
00:43:09
will stay at that, like the 200 club or the 300 club, and it's
00:43:14
you know there's all sorts of weird stuff that it's doing to
00:43:17
figure that out.
00:43:17
But yeah, that that toxic masculinity thing, like yeah,
00:43:22
this revelation I had while you know figuring out what my why
00:43:25
was, it's like so many of the you know toxic masculinity too
00:43:30
is a bunch of blokes who have inner children that were bloody
00:43:34
hurt and they've gone and their way of dealing with that is to
00:43:37
go out there and be, you know, be aggressive and put other
00:43:39
people down, and it's like everything I can.
00:43:43
You can trace every single problem in the world to.
00:43:47
You know, back to like some some kid feeling hurt at one
00:43:52
point.
00:43:52
And you know I know you've spoken about bullying a lot.
00:43:55
You know, like I, I got pretty badly bullied as well and like
00:44:00
people process things differently.
00:44:02
You know, like I look at my life and I think I've actually I've
00:44:04
had a really easy life compared to a lot of people, and then I
00:44:08
sort of sit back and I tally things up and I'm like, oh,
00:44:12
actually, no, yeah, there are there, like is I may be, uh, you
00:44:16
know, a vanilla middle class um person, but I've had real
00:44:20
struggles and those struggles are valid and some of them, a
00:44:24
lot of them, were beyond my control and were not my fault,
00:44:27
or, and like some people can take that and and be bitter
00:44:31
about that and go start wars or commit violence or, you know,
00:44:36
try and exert their, reclaim their power through domination
00:44:41
in some kind of way.
00:44:43
And like I've got this person who I adopted as a surrogate
00:44:48
sister when we were in a share house years ago and she's had a
00:44:51
really difficult life with some you know role models that left
00:44:56
her in difficult positions and she's just this powerhouse.
00:44:59
Like she's gone out and been like, well, well, I'm going to
00:45:04
take that and I'm going to change the world and try and
00:45:07
make it a better place and, you know, has had lunch with
00:45:10
michelle obama and you know stuff like this and like I guess
00:45:16
I don't even know what my point is.
00:45:18
It's just that, yeah, what I, what I try to do, whether it's
00:45:21
through my music or through the theater company, is to try and
00:45:24
Be the change you want to see in the world.
00:45:26
Yeah, just try and rebuild people's sense of you know
00:45:31
agency, innocence, safety, I feel like and have them do that
00:45:37
for me too.
00:45:38
Carter: Yeah, post-covid man, I think we really like, we need
00:45:41
the people like you and me and your, you know, surrogate sister
00:45:45
, you know we need those people to rebuild because there's no
00:45:50
community anymore post-covid.
00:45:52
Everyone's out for themselves and it was very much that way
00:45:56
prior to, anyway, but like people stopped being like, they
00:46:02
stopped knowing how to fucking interact with people, you know.
00:46:05
So, no, it's, it's awesome.
00:46:07
I, I love, I love your, your tiktok, I love the work you're
00:46:10
doing and I especially really do love the new single, which we
00:46:14
will talk about now.
00:46:15
So it is called listen.
00:46:17
Now, why don't you run me through the story behind it and
00:46:20
the writing process, how it became?
00:46:23
Ben: what it?
00:46:23
Carter: now is.
00:46:25
Ben: Yeah.
00:46:25
So I got a.
00:46:26
I was sitting there with my wife it was probably like it was
00:46:29
nearly midnight and we were like we had a busy day and we
00:46:34
were just like just finally settling down to try and watch a
00:46:39
show together which is part of our love language, of like
00:46:43
sitting on the couch and watching our stories and the
00:46:46
phone rang and I kind of I looked at her you know how you
00:46:51
can have that like silent communication with your partner
00:46:54
where you just pull certain faces at each other.
00:46:56
I was like my face was like should I answer that or should
00:46:59
we just sit and watch the show?
00:47:02
And then she sort of did that facial expression without
00:47:04
talking.
00:47:05
It was just like you should, you should answer it.
00:47:07
And so I picked it up and went outside and, yeah, it was a mate
00:47:11
who I hadn't spoken to for a while and I could tell from his
00:47:15
voice that he was.
00:47:15
You know, his voice was shaky and wavery and uh, and he was
00:47:21
slurring a bit, and so you know the way I sort of phrase it is.
00:47:25
He had a belly full of whiskey and a head full of despair and
00:47:30
throughout the conversation he told me that he had recently
00:47:34
tried to unalive himself.
00:47:37
You'll put a trigger warning at the beginning of this, won't
00:47:39
you suicide?
00:47:41
Carter: on here, I'll tick.
00:47:43
Ben: Yeah, I don't know why I've actually sort of taken to just
00:47:46
using that phrase anyway, I don't know why.
00:47:49
Maybe it's because half the time I'm making stuff for TikTok
00:47:52
, so I just do it.
00:47:53
But yeah, and I just kind of like, despite having worked
00:47:59
through the arts in these ways, it was, you, you know, never in
00:48:02
a sense where I had to be direct support for someone going
00:48:06
through that without there being someone better trained around,
00:48:12
and so I kind of like was sitting there freaking the fuck
00:48:15
out, just not really knowing how to handle it.
00:48:17
So, but but then I was just like, okay, you know, what would
00:48:21
, what would you want if you'd revealed this to someone?
00:48:24
And so I just like listened I'm just her, you know asked him
00:48:28
like what will you know?
00:48:29
What were the thoughts that?
00:48:30
What are the thoughts that you're having?
00:48:32
That like make you feel like that's the solution?
00:48:35
And he, you know, went into all things about all that.
00:48:40
You know really quite stock standard negative self-talk
00:48:44
stuff that comes with anxiety and depression or anything.
00:48:48
That's just like I'm a piece of shit, I'm never going to amount
00:48:51
to anything, I've ruined this, that and the other about my life
00:48:54
and you know, I'm not as a result of that, I'm not worthy
00:48:58
of amounting to anything.
00:49:00
And I was like, oh fuck, I've, I've had all those thoughts too
00:49:07
sorry, are we allowed to f-bomb on here?
00:49:09
Yeah, man, yeah.
00:49:11
And so, yeah, I was just like it was this kind of weird
00:49:16
revelation to me that we'd had the same thoughts but for some
00:49:20
reason we just had very different possible solutions to
00:49:24
you know how to deal with those thoughts.
00:49:26
And he, yeah, he'd sort of like I probably always drank more
00:49:30
than someone should, but you I don't think you would ever call
00:49:34
me like an alcoholic.
00:49:35
And he, he dived.
00:49:36
You know he was buying a bottle of whiskey a day and just
00:49:39
sinking it.
00:49:40
And I I guess you know when you're doing that, the light at
00:49:47
the end of the tunnel seems a lot further away.
00:49:49
And so, basically, I just yeah, I just talk to him, I organise
00:49:53
to meet up with him the next day , which, you know, later on I've
00:49:56
done some mental health first aid training.
00:49:59
That just sort of talks about how important that can be in
00:50:02
terms of creating future plans when someone is a in a state of
00:50:07
suicidal ideation.
00:50:08
And, yeah, to sort of his.
00:50:11
His mom was like a facebook friend of mine through having
00:50:15
followed my music or something.
00:50:16
So I I sort of reached out to her and tried to build a bit of
00:50:21
a better support network around, around his family and some some
00:50:25
other friends.
00:50:26
And yeah, then a few days later I was kind of driving along and
00:50:31
, as is often the case, the start of a song strikes you when
00:50:34
you're nowhere near a guitar and I just thought about, yeah,
00:50:40
just how similar our, the negative things that happened
00:50:43
inside our heads had been and how him, hearing that from
00:50:48
someone who you know he was feeling like he was this huge
00:50:52
piece of shit and viewing me as this person who had their life
00:50:54
together because, you know, I had a wife and I had a job and I
00:50:59
was doing something and hearing that I had thought exactly the
00:51:03
same things about myself, just kind of like put things into
00:51:07
perspective for him in a different way.
00:51:09
And so the first lines of of the song, like you know, listen
00:51:14
now, before you sleep, I'll tell you where I hide the secrets I
00:51:17
can't keep it's like, yeah, man, like I've got those secrets too
00:51:20
.
00:51:20
Anyway, so, yeah, I sort of got to the point where I'd half
00:51:26
written this song.
00:51:26
I sort of had a verse and a pre-chorus and a chorus and I
00:51:30
was feeling a bit lost with it and I'd been doing this
00:51:32
songwriting course and ended up taking this song into a co-write
00:51:36
with the mentor of that course and he was like I really like
00:51:40
the song.
00:51:40
And he was like I really like the song and while I'm sure he
00:51:43
didn't use these words, the way I took it, because it was a
00:51:47
personal thing to me was like, oh, we've just got to throw out
00:51:50
this chorus.
00:51:50
And I'd always known that you can't be precious in a co-write.
00:51:54
And but yeah, I was like, wow, ok, this is quite personal to me
00:51:58
, but I just sort of trusted the process and yeah, he was
00:52:01
absolutely right.
00:52:02
We threw out the chorus, we kept some bits of it that were
00:52:05
good and we wrote a new chorus and now the song does a greater
00:52:10
honor to the situation than it would have otherwise, and so
00:52:13
that was just a really big lesson for me in just trusting
00:52:17
the universe and letting go of some preciousness about things.
00:52:21
And so, yeah, now the song is here, it's out.
00:52:24
It's actually been produced since 2021, the first time I
00:52:28
listened to it.
00:52:28
I found a photo in my phone the other day which was of me
00:52:31
listening to it in headphones in WA somewhere for the first time
00:52:35
.
00:52:35
And, yeah, I've now released it to the world and decided to
00:52:41
yeah, to donate 50% of any income that comes through
00:52:45
Bandcamp, which is one of the easiest it was sort of the
00:52:48
easiest way to go.
00:52:49
Well, I can track that income very easily as to what sales
00:52:52
come from this song, rather than you know, whatever, zero, zero,
00:52:55
zero, three cents of I get per stream on Spotify or whatever.
00:52:59
So, yeah, I'll be donating to suicide prevention charities.
00:53:04
I mean, the beauty part is that that can continue for all time,
00:53:10
Like, I can just mix it up every couple of months.
00:53:12
I think I'm going to start with Lifeline.
00:53:12
Even though they're, like you know, one of the big four in
00:53:15
terms of, you know, that sort of thing, their phones need to be
00:53:19
picked up because they're also one of the better known and one
00:53:23
of the more likely to receive a call when someone needs it.
00:53:26
But, yeah, I'm also wanting to mix it up and get in support
00:53:31
some more local, grassroots-based charities as
00:53:34
well.
00:53:34
There's like one here in Canberra that I'm looking at
00:53:37
doing next.
00:53:38
And then, yeah, let me know if there's any down in Melbourne
00:53:41
that need a hand.
00:53:42
Or you know, in Victoria You're not actually in Melbourne, are
00:53:46
you?
00:53:47
Carter: Yeah, I'm regional, I'm about regional out of.
00:53:49
Melbourne, yeah.
00:53:50
Ben: Yeah, yeah, but yeah, whatever, Let me know if there
00:53:53
are any little guys that need extra funds because, yeah, this
00:53:59
song can continue to do good things well beyond the now
00:54:03
hopefully, yeah, no.
00:54:04
Carter: I definitely agree.
00:54:04
This song can continue to do good things well beyond the now.
00:54:05
Hopefully, yeah, no.
00:54:05
I definitely agree, and I love the fact that you you are, you
00:54:08
know, putting your money where your mouth is, so to speak, and
00:54:11
and following through on those donations.
00:54:13
As soon as I saw your post about the 50 being donated,
00:54:17
signed up on bandcamp and sent you through through a little bit
00:54:20
of money.
00:54:21
Ben: You were my second and my first was another one of our
00:54:25
ADHD brothers on TikTok who I think I've seen you guys
00:54:30
commenting on each other's posts .
00:54:32
But yeah, that was a really interesting thing too, to you
00:54:36
know, having been sitting in this world of TikTok where
00:54:38
you're online.
00:54:39
But I think this particular platform creates community in a
00:54:44
way that Facebook and Instagram just don't like.
00:54:48
The algorithms just work in that way.
00:54:50
And to have the two people who were first to go and buy my
00:54:56
single were not my friends or family who you know, or any of
00:55:01
my fans who've known me for decades.
00:55:04
It was these two blokes that I've just like connected with on
00:55:07
this social media platform, which was just, yeah, that was
00:55:10
really nice yeah, really nice feeling, I know.
00:55:14
Carter: Oh, I'm glad that I could be a part of that.
00:55:16
Yeah, no, as soon as I downloaded it, like, I told you
00:55:19
that I was going to do like a reaction video and um, it was,
00:55:22
yeah, the first time I had listened to it, mate and I'm no
00:55:25
stranger to crying on camera, as you would have probably seen on
00:55:28
a couple of my TikTok videos but yeah, mate, it had me in
00:55:31
tears.
00:55:32
There's not many songs these days that can do that for me and
00:55:36
move me in such a way.
00:55:37
So, truly, from the bottom of my heart, thank you because it's
00:55:45
a special song for you.
00:55:45
But like what special song for me?
00:55:46
Because I've I've been where your friend is and I've been
00:55:48
where you are and, unfortunately , not every time it's worked out
00:55:53
to the best it could have.
00:55:56
Yeah, it really is like a personal, a personal journey for
00:56:01
a lot of people and it and it deserves all of the success and
00:56:05
it deserves its its place in all of the charts.
00:56:07
Ben: I really believe that yeah, thanks, man, and I think, like,
00:56:11
what, like, it's one thing to raise the money, but what one?
00:56:15
I guess the thing I want the song to do the most is to just
00:56:21
try and get that message through to people, to just like break
00:56:26
down the stigma, and especially men, like, like, if you just try
00:56:32
and ignore that stigma for a second and you reach out to
00:56:34
someone, you might find out that you are not alone and that they
00:56:37
feel exactly the way you do and that they have ways to help you
00:56:41
.
00:56:41
And if that message can stop one person ending up in a casket
00:56:49
, then that's worth it.
00:56:50
Hopefully it can stop more.
00:56:53
Carter: 100%, 100%.
00:56:55
Well, my friend, is there anything that you would like to
00:56:59
throw out into the world before you go and retrieve your guitar
00:57:03
to serenade me?
00:57:06
Ben: check in on, check in on people, because it's one thing
00:57:10
to reach out, but, like, sometimes, uh, the people will
00:57:15
be more likely to reach out when they never would.
00:57:17
If you, if you say, how are you ?
00:57:20
And then when they go, I'm fine , you go, how are you?
00:57:23
One more time, that might just be enough.
00:57:26
And yeah, I guess just like, go out there and support all the
00:57:30
people who are trying to make change in this world, with all
00:57:33
the likes and follows and shares , because you know it helps us,
00:57:38
it helps us do what we do and it helps us reach more people.
00:57:41
And you know that's like not not just saying come and like
00:57:45
and follow me, but like you know , if there's an artist or if
00:57:49
there's a, if there's an advocate or someone, I think
00:57:53
people underestimate what a few, a few clicks on their part can
00:57:58
do for those of us that are trying to achieve something.
00:58:01
So I feel like I want to be walking away with something much
00:58:05
more poignant than this.
00:58:06
I want a final mic drop moment, but maybe that'll just be the
00:58:10
song.
00:58:11
Carter: I think it'll be the song yeah.
00:58:14
Ben: But yeah, thanks so much for having me on, man, and I
00:58:17
love what you're doing and, who knows, I might go start my own
00:58:21
one and get you on it at some point.
00:58:23
Carter: Mate, I would be absolutely honoured.
00:58:25
And yeah, I'm not gatekeeping the parenting and mental health
00:58:29
podcast world at all.
00:58:31
Ben: No, we didn't talk about the parenting anywhere near as
00:58:34
much as I thought we would, but maybe you'll just have to have
00:58:38
me back on.
00:58:38
Yeah, have me back on once I've got two in the belt and see how
00:58:41
I'm going.
00:58:42
Carter: Yeah, yeah, any time you , yeah, have me back on once
00:58:43
I've got two in the belt and see how I'm going.
00:58:44
Yeah, yeah, any time.
00:58:45
You're always welcome.
00:58:45
All right?
00:58:45
Yeah, go grab your guitar and I'll see you back here in a
00:58:48
minute.
00:58:48
Ben: All right, thanks, mate.
00:58:49
This has been Drysdale and you're listening to the Touched.
00:59:03
Out Podcast.
00:59:07
Listen now, before you sleep.
00:59:12
I'll tell you where I hide Secrets.
00:59:19
I can't keep Listen now, little why.
00:59:26
I Will show you where I hide the cracks Behind my smile.
00:59:34
Just a word Before you sleep.
00:59:38
Let me help you up Before you slip away into the night.
00:59:48
I'm here to get you by.
00:59:51
Listen now, make it through the night, pick up all the pieces
01:00:04
Enough to get you back, but listen now, it's gonna be
01:00:11
alright.
01:00:12
We'll take a stumble through the tunnel and we'll make it to
01:00:17
the light, don't you know?
01:00:20
You're not alone.
01:00:22
Tell me all the things that you can't let them know and I'll
01:00:34
listen here.
01:00:34
But do I?
01:00:34
Yeah, if you only knew the ways I put myself on trial.
01:00:42
Just a word before you sleep let me help.
01:00:50
Speaker 3: You see all the little things that you've done
01:00:55
right, and it'll be better.
01:01:00
Ben: if you listen now, make it through the night.
01:01:05
We'll pick up all the pieces Enough to get you back.
01:01:12
Listen now, it's gonna be alright, we'll take a stumble
01:01:20
through the tunnel and we'll make it to the light.
01:01:24
Listen now, listen now, listen now, listen now.
01:01:47
Speaker 5: Listen now.
01:01:48
Listen now Before.
01:01:51
Carter: Go, thank you, thank you so much.
01:01:55
I really appreciate that.
01:01:57
And yeah, yet again, mate, I really can't even put into words
01:02:02
just how fucking beautiful that song is.
01:02:04
And, yeah, you should be immensely proud of the work
01:02:08
you've done.
01:02:08
Thanks, man, thanks so much and thank you for coming on.
01:02:12
Fuck, got me good.
01:02:14
Thank you for coming on, and thank you for sharing your story
01:02:18
and thank you for sharing your journey and just thank you for
01:02:21
being here, man, you're, you're a fucking good dude and I reckon
01:02:24
I got you, man, right back at you proud to call you a friend
01:02:29
yeah, you too, man.
01:02:30
Ben: Thanks for everything you're doing.
01:02:31
Carter: No worries, mate, until we speak again catch you on the
01:02:34
next one wake up, it's another day.
01:02:39
Speaker 5: Try and find a way to make it so my life's a better
01:02:45
place.
01:02:46
If there's one thing I see, then your only thing is me Just
01:02:53
knowing that I'm trying to make a change.
01:02:56
Can I put it all on me, responsibilities and all the
01:03:05
other nonsense coming by repeatedly?
01:03:08
But there's one thing I know, it's knowing to let go.
01:03:13
Just knowing that I'm tryna make a change Doesn't seem too
01:03:21
much Just to ask for love, cause there's many things that I'll
01:03:28
do over and I've got a lot, but I won't give up On those many
01:03:36
things that I'll do over.